# One of the most honest articles I've ever seen on why educational reform fails to meet it's goals **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 7, 2010, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-most-honest-articles-ive-ever-seen-on-why-educational-reform-fails-to-meet-its-goals/552887 "2010-09-07T04:47:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-most-honest-articles-ive-ever-seen-on-why-educational-reform-fails-to-meet-its-goals/552887/21 "2010-09-08T12:46:15Z")
Probably the biggest incentive to make someone study would be to charge them for studying. Things that are free (perceived or otherwise) are perceived of having no value. On the other hand, I view free schools as part of the public good and as a critical infrastructure. So, whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-most-honest-articles-ive-ever-seen-on-why-educational-reform-fails-to-meet-its-goals/552887/22 "2010-09-08T16:33:27Z")
No, it would be to _pay_ them for studying. Charging them for studying will simply result in a higher drop out rate. I am not advocating either plan, for the record. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-most-honest-articles-ive-ever-seen-on-why-educational-reform-fails-to-meet-its-goals/552887/23 "2010-09-08T17:17:05Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Probably the biggest incentive to make someone study would be to charge them for studying. Things that are free (perceived or otherwise) are perceived of having no value. On the other hand, I view free schools as part of the public good and as a critical infrastructure. So, whatever. FWIW, the public good _is_ increasingly perceived as having no value. Education, infrastructure, care for the needy, etc., don’t meet the definition of value we are coming to believe in: something that pays back the same way it needs to be paid for - in dollars, short term. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-most-honest-articles-ive-ever-seen-on-why-educational-reform-fails-to-meet-its-goals/552887/24 "2010-09-08T21:38:19Z")
Any nation whose level of intellectual rigor is such that: less than 50% of the people can be bothered to learn enough about evolution to realize it is a slam dunk; well over 50% have such little interest in the evidence for global warming that they reject it out of hand (and even laugh at it); an awful lot of people (I don’t know what percentage and am too lazy to try to find out) believe that Sara Palin wasn’t lying when she ranted about death panels; the most important news about most colleges for their alumni is how their football team is doing; etc., etc., will obviously have children unmotivated in school. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-most-honest-articles-ive-ever-seen-on-why-educational-reform-fails-to-meet-its-goals/552887/25 "2010-09-08T22:04:15Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Any nation whose level of intellectual rigor is such that: less than 50% of the people can be bothered to learn enough about evolution to realize it is a slam dunk; well over 50% have such little interest in the evidence for global warming that they reject it out of hand (and even laugh at it); an awful lot of people (I don’t know what percentage and am too lazy to try to find out) believe that Sara Palin wasn’t lying when she ranted about death panels; the most important news about most colleges for their alumni is how their football team is doing; etc., etc., will obviously have children unmotivated in school. That’s not a bug, it’s a feature of the system. It’s an excellent excuse to crack down and exercise harsh treatment on kids, and in so doing, make ourselves feel righteous even if the effects are even more apathy and motivation-less-ness. See, it doesn’t always come down to dollars and cents; getting one’s rocks off is a core value, too. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-most-honest-articles-ive-ever-seen-on-why-educational-reform-fails-to-meet-its-goals/552887/26 "2010-09-09T03:09:33Z")
From [A Nation At Risk: The Imperative For Educational Reform](http://www2.ed.gov/pubs/NatAtRisk/risk.html) (April 1983) > [@](#): > > Our Nation is at risk. Our once unchallenged preeminence in commerce, industry, science, and technological innovation is being overtaken by competitors throughout the world. This report is concerned with only one of the many causes and dimensions of the problem, but it is the one that undergirds American prosperity, security, and civility. We report to the American people that while we can take justifiable pride in what our schools and colleges have historically accomplished and contributed to the United States and the well-being of its people, the educational foundations of our society are presently being eroded by a rising tide of mediocrity that threatens our very future as a Nation and a people. What was unimaginable a generation ago has begun to occur–others are matching and surpassing our educational attainments. > > \*\*If an unfriendly foreign power had attempted to impose on America the mediocre educational performance that exists today, we might well have viewed it as an act of war. As it stands, we have allowed this to happen to ourselves. \*\*We have even squandered the gains in student achievement made in the wake of the Sputnik challenge. Moreover, we have dismantled essential support systems which helped make those gains possible. **We have, in effect, been committing an act of unthinking, unilateral educational disarmament.** ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-most-honest-articles-ive-ever-seen-on-why-educational-reform-fails-to-meet-its-goals/552887/27 "2010-09-09T03:22:45Z")
Well, you see, we found out the educational experts we’d put our trust in were a bunch of dirty lib’rul Jew humanists. But the public, they were still on board, they were all education, education, education. They had no idea the whole enterprise was rotten to the core and would have turned little Johnny and Susie into critical-thinking commie bohemian pot-smokers who would never again listen to a parent or a boss or a drill sergeant. What else _could_ we have done but quietly drop the ball? ---
**Author:** ![AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-most-honest-articles-ive-ever-seen-on-why-educational-reform-fails-to-meet-its-goals/552887/28 "2010-09-09T07:35:25Z")
Part of the problem is that we expect THE LATEST educational fad to cause scores to skyrocket. Personally, I think we need a bunch of different schools with all sorts of philopshies. there’s no one size fits all pancea. Every kid is different. Second of all, maybe something that would cause acheiement to rise is stop automatic inclusion/mainstreaming. Yes, some kids with disabilites can really thrive in the mainstream…but others don’t…we need a contium of placements for them…now it’s just "stick them in regular classes with minimal accomondations and they’ll do fine…arughhhhh don’t even get me started on that! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![jsquire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@jsquire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsquire)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-most-honest-articles-ive-ever-seen-on-why-educational-reform-fails-to-meet-its-goals/552887/29 "2010-09-11T00:15:08Z")
We stick to the three-months-off system. That’s your main, and probably only, real problem. During those three months you get pretty much all the education gap between the rich and middle and poor and between th USA and other countries (the very existence of which is debatable…but that’s another thread). If you want to try to change the summer break system, good luck. I teach and I’d be OK with working an extra 30-40 days a year just so long as my pay went up proportionally. This, along with other expenses, would require a 20% increase in school funding. Not. Gonna. Happen. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-most-honest-articles-ive-ever-seen-on-why-educational-reform-fails-to-meet-its-goals/552887/30 "2010-09-11T02:44:13Z")
I agree that the lack of tracking and the fact that there are fewer dropouts is a major contributing factor. The US wants everyone to get a high school diploma, while making the curriculum more difficult. The result of that is exactly as expected: grades don’t improve over time. Another factor is this: any new educational movement lasts about five years, tops. Then something new comes along. The general trend is: 1. Someone comes up with a new idea. 2. It’s tried in a small number of schools, run by teachers who are specially trained in it and who think it’s a great idea and who give extra attention to making it work. Students and parents become involved. 3. Success! 4. It starts getting adopted more widely. Not all the teachers like the idea. Others don’t get good training. Still more don’t have the time or motivation to give special attention. Students and parents have better things to do. 5. Results are disappointing. 6. Go to Step 1. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-most-honest-articles-ive-ever-seen-on-why-educational-reform-fails-to-meet-its-goals/552887.md?page=1)