# One (possibly) legit argument against legalizing prostitution. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 15, 2016, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-possibly-legit-argument-against-legalizing-prostitution/759977 "2016-07-15T14:53:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-possibly-legit-argument-against-legalizing-prostitution/759977/41 "2016-07-15T19:36:52Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > This opportunity seems woefully lopsided in mens’ favor, as there seem to be way, way more men looking to pay for uncommitted sex than there are women. Uh, yes. I’m not sure what you’re saying here. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-possibly-legit-argument-against-legalizing-prostitution/759977/42 "2016-07-15T19:38:07Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Sex work is a profession where you have no benefits, and age discrimination starts eroding your paycheck before you even turn 30. **If someone foregoes their education in favor of that, yes, I’m very comfortable saying that’s a bad thing**. But choice. Aren’t people free to make risky or unwise choices? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-possibly-legit-argument-against-legalizing-prostitution/759977/43 "2016-07-15T19:38:13Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > It’s becoming more socially acceptable all the time. Perhaps true, but a quick search of the want ads suggests that the proportion is still pretty much negligible relative to men. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-possibly-legit-argument-against-legalizing-prostitution/759977/44 "2016-07-15T19:45:14Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > But when a man can simply say “fuck it, I’m not buying dinner and a movie for the possibility of a blowjob later.” > [@](#): > > if sex becomes a market commodity, then participants will have to become more competitive, like it or not. Why would you consider either of these two bad for society? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-possibly-legit-argument-against-legalizing-prostitution/759977/45 "2016-07-15T19:46:12Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Why do you insist on this either/or choice? And why THAT choice? I didn’t. . I presented one scenario that I found concerning. You asked me why I felt that was a bad choice, and I gave you an extremely compelling reason. > [@](#): > > How about another – such as selling sex vs. homelessness? When you’re talking about a personal threat such as homelessness, the word ‘choice’ is not applicable. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-possibly-legit-argument-against-legalizing-prostitution/759977/46 "2016-07-15T19:56:58Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > But choice. Aren’t people free to make risky or unwise choices? If it harms nobody else, sure. But the question under consideration is whether and how it harms others. Think of it like insider securities trading. The harm is indirect, but it exists, so society has an interest in prohibiting it. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-possibly-legit-argument-against-legalizing-prostitution/759977/47 "2016-07-15T20:04:41Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > If it harms nobody else, sure. But the question under consideration is whether and how it harms others. Think of it like insider securities trading. The harm is indirect, but it exists, so society has an interest in prohibiting it. Are you saying that some people having a lot of sex are harming others who aren’t able to have as much sex? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-possibly-legit-argument-against-legalizing-prostitution/759977/48 "2016-07-15T20:06:09Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Why would you consider either of these two bad for society? We get it, your sexual opportunities are the most important thing in your world. If you truly want to understand what I’m saying, re-read the thread and it might sink in; otherwise you are free at any time to crawl back into the men’s rights sewer and let the adults have a chat. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-possibly-legit-argument-against-legalizing-prostitution/759977/49 "2016-07-15T20:06:39Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > If it harms nobody else, sure. But the question under consideration is whether and how it harms others. Think of it like insider securities trading. The harm is indirect, but it exists, so society has an interest in prohibiting it. It only harms those who want to use sex as some sort of a reward. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-possibly-legit-argument-against-legalizing-prostitution/759977/50 "2016-07-15T20:07:18Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Are you saying that some people having a lot of sex are harming others who aren’t able to have as much sex? I’m pretty sure that’s not what I said. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-possibly-legit-argument-against-legalizing-prostitution/759977/51 "2016-07-15T20:09:12Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > We get it, your sexual opportunities are the most important thing in your world. If you truly want to understand what I’m saying, re-read the thread and it might sink in; otherwise you are free at any time to crawl back into the men’s rights sewer and let the adults have a chat. Geez, this seems mildly insulting 😉 It’s amazing how fast you resort to degenerative remarks when someone doesn’t agree with your world view. I happen to think it is a legitimate question: If a guy can decide that he would rather pay for a blow job instead of buying dinner and a movie just for the HOPE of getting one, how is that bad for society? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-possibly-legit-argument-against-legalizing-prostitution/759977/52 "2016-07-15T20:10:40Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > If it harms nobody else, sure. But the question under consideration is whether and how it harms others. Think of it like insider securities trading. The harm is indirect, but it exists, so society has an interest in prohibiting it. But that’s not what you’re saying. You’re saying that prostitution is bad for the prostitute because it may hinder her education, gives her a job without the same benefits as most other jobs, and she will be in less demand after age 30. Assuming that the prostitute is an adult exercising free choice and free career decision making with knowledge of the situation, why should you or I or anyone else veto her choice? Society should allow free choice. We let people bungee jump, skydive, do all sorts of unhealthy or dangerous things that are legal. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-possibly-legit-argument-against-legalizing-prostitution/759977/53 "2016-07-15T20:11:48Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Perhaps true, but a quick search of the want ads suggests that the proportion is still pretty much negligible relative to men. But it’s rapidly increasing, which suggests that female reluctance to pay for sex is more of a cultural phenomenon than a biological one. So I don’t think we need to worry about prostitution forcing women to be more “competitive” for sex. (Of course, I suppose for some people that scenario’s not a bug but a feature: i.e., a double standard where men can have all the no-strings for-pay sex they want, but most women who are not sex workers are still expected to shun for-pay sex and consequently are miserable and desperate in their attempts to compete with sex workers for men’s sexual attention, is their fantasy ideal.) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-possibly-legit-argument-against-legalizing-prostitution/759977/54 "2016-07-15T20:16:42Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > the dating scene is more competitive because more men are just opting to stay home with xxxtube instead of going out to meet someone. When they do, they expect an experience what they see in porn videos - unrealistic beauty standards, no commitment, easier availability, more adventurous acts, and a lopsided focus on the man’s needs. > > But when a man can simply say “fuck it, I’m not buying dinner and a movie for the possibility of a blowjob later.” Or in an existing relationship, “why should I work on my sexual relationship with my wife when I can just buy it elsewhere?” Isn’t this exactly what romance novels and chick flicks have done for decades? If a woman is dissatisfied with real life, she can find a book or movie that caters to a fantasy about some multimillionaire, tall, dashing, strong, handsome ambitious guy who embodies her fantasies about what a dreamy husband or boyfriend should be like? And don’t some women then get dissatisfied when they have their real-life boyfriends or husbands who can’t measure up to that fictional ideal? So how is that different from how men unrealistically expect women to live up to porn, or seek a prostitute rather than “buy dinner and a movie in hopes of getting sex,” as you put it? I’m not hijacking this thread. I’m pointing out that society is full of this escapist entertainment - books, movies, games, etc. meant to fulfill fantasies that can’t be fulfilled in real life. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-possibly-legit-argument-against-legalizing-prostitution/759977/55 "2016-07-15T20:19:56Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Assuming that the prostitute is an adult exercising free choice and free career decision making with knowledge of the situation, why should you or I or anyone else veto her choice? Society should allow free choice. We let people bungee jump, skydive, do all sorts of unhealthy or dangerous things that are legal. If the topic were “Should prostitution be legal?” then your above argument would be valid, and I would heartily agree. But that’s not the topic of discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-possibly-legit-argument-against-legalizing-prostitution/759977/56 "2016-07-15T20:21:30Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I’m not hijacking this thread. I’m pointing out that society is full of this escapist entertainment - books, movies, games, etc. meant to fulfill fantasies that can’t be fulfilled in real life. And the issue is not that unrealistic expectations about sex and love aren’t a problem. They are, and people suffer because of them. The issue is that the way to solve that problem is to understand the difference between fantasy and reality better, not to suppress everything that encourages unrealistic fantasies. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-possibly-legit-argument-against-legalizing-prostitution/759977/57 "2016-07-15T20:28:53Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > if sex becomes a market commodity, then participants will have to become more competitive, like it or not. This seems to me like a bad thing mainly for women and gay men, and also for society at large. Your thoughts? I don’t understand what specifically is being called “bad” here. First of all, dating is by its nature competitive. Billions of dollars are spent every year, around the world, in better clothing, cosmetics, pursuit of a more glamorous career, haircuts, etc. and at an extreme, plastic surgery - for an edge in the dating game. Second, you’re arguing that readily available commercial sex is bad for society because - what? That women will find it harder to get a man? That women will have to work harder at the dating game? That women will be under greater pressure to have sex on a first date? That sex will not be able to be used as a tool of manipulation? I’m not trying to put words in your mouth - I’m just not sure what you are articulating here. Finally, let’s look at a country where prostitution is indeed legal - say the Netherlands. Are the women there indeed under greater pressure, dating-wise? Do they have to be more competitive? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-possibly-legit-argument-against-legalizing-prostitution/759977/58 "2016-07-15T20:29:56Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > If the topic were **“Should prostitution be legal?”** then your above argument would be valid, and I would heartily agree. But that’s not the topic of discussion. Your thread is titled **“One possibly legit argument against legalizing prostitution.”** ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-possibly-legit-argument-against-legalizing-prostitution/759977/59 "2016-07-15T20:31:37Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > And don’t some women then get dissatisfied when they have their real-life boyfriends or husbands who can’t measure up to that fictional ideal? > > So how is that different from how men unrealistically expect women to live up to porn, or seek a prostitute rather than “buy dinner and a movie in hopes of getting sex,” as you put it? I suppose those are morally equivalent situations. I have heard of men complaining that they don’t measure up to pulpy romance novels. It’s a real thing. But this varies in 2 ways from what I’m going to continue calling the “porn effect” until someone corrects me. [ol] [li]External attributes are not attainable, so they don’t pressure the average man to behave differently. You can’t reasonably be taller or have better natural features or become wildly rich.[/li][li]In the case of being kinder, more thoughtful, more loving, gainfully employed… well, I have a hard time seeing the downside in setting that expectation.[/li][/ol] Contrast this now with the new norms arising from porn… blowjobs are the new kissing, pubic shaving is a given, threesomes are on the bargaining table, sex on the first date if you want a second one, anal and pretend it doesn’t hurt (much)… women are reporting that they have to consider behaving in uncomfortable ways because they are competing with imaginary porn women. Now imagine they’re competing with REAL sex workers. That’s my point. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-possibly-legit-argument-against-legalizing-prostitution/759977/60 "2016-07-15T20:32:43Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > So how is that different from how men unrealistically expect women to live up to porn, or seek a prostitute rather than “buy dinner and a movie in hopes of getting sex,” as you put it? Because apparently, if you are a man that thinks about sexual opportunities, you don’t belong in an adult conversation, and should crawl back into the men’s rights sewer :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-possibly-legit-argument-against-legalizing-prostitution/759977.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-possibly-legit-argument-against-legalizing-prostitution/759977.md?page=4)