# One should cultivate the Ego over the Id. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 29, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-should-cultivate-the-ego-over-the-id/689579 "2014-05-29T18:28:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-should-cultivate-the-ego-over-the-id/689579/21 "2014-05-30T15:19:48Z")
Where does the superego fit into all this? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-should-cultivate-the-ego-over-the-id/689579/22 "2014-05-30T15:34:33Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > [Relevant move passage](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzH8VXlXxNE) You have our gratitude. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-should-cultivate-the-ego-over-the-id/689579/23 "2014-05-30T15:39:47Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Forcing yourself to write with your off hand causes permanent damage; plenty of people who were forced to do just that as part of the crusade against left handedness complain of it. I think I was interpreting it as a once-in-a-while experiment, while you were interpreting it as a permanent change. Looking back, I can’t tell which the OP had in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-should-cultivate-the-ego-over-the-id/689579/24 "2014-05-30T16:16:44Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > Id agree with you, but I’ve got to be egoing now. Super. Ego real quick. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-should-cultivate-the-ego-over-the-id/689579/25 "2014-05-30T20:21:56Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > I disagree with your assertion that what makes a human is the rational, thinking being. Certainly, that is a part of what we are, but if that were all we were, then we’re really nothing different than biological computers. Now, of course, one could make the argument that that’s all we really are, but I think that our more primitive drives and urges are part of what shape the human experience. That is, I think what makes a human is an aim to find the proper balance between our base instincts and our rational minds. A rational thinking being is not all we are, but it is the defining characteristic which separates us from lower beasts. > [@](#): > > I can go through life thoroughly indulging my base instincts, and I’m likely an utter failure, on a personal and social level. On the other hand, if I stick to only my rational mind, I may be able to be a contributing member of society, but I miss out the parts of life that make it worth living. I don’ t think avoiding the things which make life worth living would be a rational choice. Similarly, I don’t think being rational necessarily means being a productive member of society. The drive to wealth, power and social status are fundamentally irrational. > [@](#): > > In fact, as a human, finding a proper balance between these can make it so we can potentially excel even more at both. So, for instance, I can work hard at my job and make sure I eat healthy and get exercise, but it’s also important to have vacations, have pleasurable experiences, seek out friends and other relationships. To maintain a balance you must be able to choose when to indulge your baser instincts, which means establishing conscious control over them. > [@](#): > > We shouldn’t make choices just to fly in the face of our baser instincts but, instead, we should rationally decide the costs and the benefits associated with them. Yes, it’s a bad idea to blow my savings on an expensive sports car when I would be better off using it toward paying off debts or buying a home. But why would it make sense to deliberately make myself cold just as an FU to my id? To practice. A dumbbell for the mind. > [@](#): > > Besides, a lot of the deeper desires we have have some basis in reason, as they evolved to be our instincts for a reason. The question is whether those reasons still make sense in a modern world or toward furthering other goals I’ve consciously set. > > My goal, in general, is to make sure I’m not just giving in to my more base desires, but to decide if it actually makes sense for me. For instance, in general, we have a biological urge to procreate. So, do I _really_ want kids, or would that just be me giving in to that biological urge. Or, if I have a goal of competing in a marathon, maybe I will pass on a piece of cake, if not, maybe a small treat is worth it. Why would you want to compete in a marathon? > [@](#): > > In short, this seems like taking an extreme approach to controlling one’s urges. It’s no more an extreme approach than is joining a gym if you want to become a bricklayer. You must strengthen your back before you take up the hod. > [@](#): > > It’s like, sure, one person might over-indulge in alcohol and become a drunk, so to avoid that someone else decides never to have a drop. Why can’t a reasonable person have a nice glass of wine with a good meal or share a beer with a friend from time to time? It’s not a one or the other, it’s a false dichotomoy, and I think the idea of ego over id is a similar situation. You’re taking the Buddhistic third-way approach, while I favour an ascetic approach, largely inspired by the teachings of Epicurus. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-should-cultivate-the-ego-over-the-id/689579/26 "2014-05-30T20:27:28Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The problem is, that contradicts part of the OP’s position: > > You are giving examples of undergoing unpleasant experiences in return for various benefits; the OP is claiming that it’s irrelevant whether or not going against your instincts benefits you, you should do it because it’s “metaphysically desirable”. > > In other words, you shouldn’t exercise to get fitter, but only because it’s unpleasant, and you shouldn’t take into consideration whether or not it does benefit you. Trying to run on a broken leg for example is even more against one’s “lower urges”, and you shouldn’t worry that it can cripple you - that’s a matter of desirability, and therefore “unimportant”. Rather, psychical exercise should be pursued neither because it is unpleasant, nor because it increases physical fitness, but rather because it inures one to future hardships and forms the habit of mental control over the body. If you’ve got a broken leg, I suggest you go to a doctor. Maybe take lower doses of the painkillers than recommended. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-should-cultivate-the-ego-over-the-id/689579/27 "2014-05-30T20:30:03Z")
Again, where does the superego fit into all this? ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-should-cultivate-the-ego-over-the-id/689579/28 "2014-05-30T20:35:50Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I guess it would be too pleasurable for the OP to return to his own thread. If only I had devoted more time to mastering sleep. Sleep, mankind’s truest enemy. First it got Gilgamesh, then it got me. However, people who don’t sleep much seem to be reprehensible, hard-working, productive personages, such as Maggie Thatcher’s famous four hours a night. I’ll stick to eight. Twelve, maybe, after a hard day. > [@](#): > > I’m thinking “witnessing”. Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of reason. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-should-cultivate-the-ego-over-the-id/689579/29 "2014-05-30T20:37:17Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Again, where does the superego fit into all this? You don’t believe in that, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2014, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-should-cultivate-the-ego-over-the-id/689579/30 "2014-05-31T03:51:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Again, where does the superego fit into all this? Classically, it’s the voice that scolds one when one does not exercise, study, or practice. The OP could be said to play the voice of the superego, in urging us to act for our own betterment. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2014, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-should-cultivate-the-ego-over-the-id/689579/31 "2014-05-31T11:37:17Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > How cute. Someone who believes in the existence of “id” and “ego”! Wow. That has to be your superego talking, right? Right?? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-should-cultivate-the-ego-over-the-id/689579/32 "2014-05-31T20:28:17Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > Wow. That has to be your superego talking, right? Right?? Behaviorism. Someone displayed a stimulus which engendered a response. (Jungianism: everyone else was thinking it, so someone had to say it.) (Adlerism: it originated in nursing and weaning.) (Reichism: accumulation of orgone energy facilitated an energetic response.) (Desmond Morrisism: wow, lookit them boobies…) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-should-cultivate-the-ego-over-the-id/689579.md?page=1)