# One soccer team scores 3-2, but still loses? How is that fair? (Juve-Porto) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** football-soccer-fifa\ **Created:** [March 10, 2021, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-soccer-team-scores-3-2-but-still-loses-how-is-that-fair-juve-porto/937592 "2021-03-10T07:25:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![stuccosuperstar2020](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@stuccosuperstar2020](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuccosuperstar2020)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2021, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-soccer-team-scores-3-2-but-still-loses-how-is-that-fair-juve-porto/937592/21 "2021-03-12T03:43:14Z")
You could do 2/3 if there was seeding, but IIRC the elimination rounds are determined by random draw. I personally would like to see MLS do with this since they play a ridiculously long season, let half the teams in the playoffs, yet teams can be eliminated in one game. The closest I saw was NASL back in the day would do home and away, if they were tied 1 game each, there would be a short “mini game” then a shootout to determine the winner, or something like that. The oddities of the NASL playoff system created this drama in 1979: > **[The Archives Room: The Cosmos-Whitecaps classic of 1979](https://www.ussoccerhistory.org/the-cosmos-whitecaps-classic-of-1979/)** > > Roger Allaway on the second leg of the 1979 championship semifinal between New York Cosmos and Vancouver Whitecaps, considered by many to be the best game in the history of the original NASL. ---
**Author:** ![stuccosuperstar2020](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@stuccosuperstar2020](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuccosuperstar2020)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2021, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-soccer-team-scores-3-2-but-still-loses-how-is-that-fair-juve-porto/937592/22 "2021-03-12T03:44:58Z")
I kinda did, even if I got the exact goals scored per game wrong. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2021, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-soccer-team-scores-3-2-but-still-loses-how-is-that-fair-juve-porto/937592/23 "2021-03-12T03:47:39Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > That seems overblown since other sports do just fine but whatever. By other sports you mean US pro sport apart from NFL? That works because the known home ground advantage in the play-offs is accepted as being due reward for the team finishing higher on the table at the end of the regular season. That doesn’t apply with these interleague/international competitions like UEFA because the teams (generally) don’t play each other outside of UEFA. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2021, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-soccer-team-scores-3-2-but-still-loses-how-is-that-fair-juve-porto/937592/24 "2021-03-12T04:17:22Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > That doesn’t apply with these interleague/international competitions like UEFA because the teams (generally) don’t play each other outside of UEFA. That would certainly complicate matters. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2021, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-soccer-team-scores-3-2-but-still-loses-how-is-that-fair-juve-porto/937592/25 "2021-03-12T04:35:12Z")
I love the away goal rule, and certainly prefer it to PKs… everybody understands the rule, and as some have said earlier in the thread, it really leads to some tension in matches. There are some situations where I do like extra time as a resolution, eg WC semis, but given how many matches many of the players play - league play, cup play, other cup play sometimes, and international play - extra time in one match can put clubs at some disadvantage. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2021, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-soccer-team-scores-3-2-but-still-loses-how-is-that-fair-juve-porto/937592/26 "2021-03-12T13:29:18Z")
You confused a single game score for the result of a series of games. That’s a pretty big misunderstanding. ---
**Author:** ![stuccosuperstar2020](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@stuccosuperstar2020](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuccosuperstar2020)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2021, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-soccer-team-scores-3-2-but-still-loses-how-is-that-fair-juve-porto/937592/27 "2021-03-12T17:15:49Z")
Heh heh. I wasn’t asking you. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2021, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-soccer-team-scores-3-2-but-still-loses-how-is-that-fair-juve-porto/937592/28 "2021-03-12T17:31:29Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Why don’t they just do a best 2-out-of-3 contest to determine who wins? It seems silly to have a tournament with an even number of matches to force a tiebreaker. I think you’re missing the point - the away goal rule makes for incredibly exciting games, as others have pointed out. It forces away teams to go on the attack, and a home team can never feel comfortable, even if they are 2 or 3 goals ahead. It can turn a game around in the final seconds. It’s edge of the seat stuff. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-soccer-team-scores-3-2-but-still-loses-how-is-that-fair-juve-porto/937592/29 "2021-03-13T09:53:22Z")
From the OP: > [@stuccosuperstar2020](#): > > Perhaps most away goals scored can be the tiebreaker if the actual score is tied That is the actual rule - away goals only affect the outcome when the aggregate score is level. What you write about “points” is inaccurate. If the 2 games finish 3-1 and 1-2, with aggregate score is 4-3 and away goals don’t come into the outcome (though they make a massive difference to tactics while the games are actually being played). > [@stuccosuperstar2020](#): > > But then why does the scoreboard say Juventus 3-2, but the loser? If you read a list of scores or a summary of the game it probably did say something like “Porto win on away goals”, or the list of results included the words “2nd leg”, which indicates you need to check what the first game’s score was. While the game is being played you’re generally expected to know the format of the competition and what the current situation is. I’ve been to hundreds of professional football matches where there wasn’t a scoreboard in the stadium. > [@Atamasama](#): > > Why don’t they just do a best 2-out-of-3 contest to determine who wins? It seems silly to have a tournament with an even number of matches to force a tiebreaker. This is a format which has nuances understood and enjoyed by millions of people for 50 years, so it’s quite bold to deem it “silly” and “overblown” when you’ve only just found out about it. There are lots of reasons for using an aggregate score rather than counting the number of games one, for not having a 3rd game, etc. They did have something like what you’re talking about when international club tournaments were getting going in the 1950s but practical experience quickly showed that aggregate scores were best. That did lead to a few years of issues with some games having to be decided by a toss of a coin, which is why they brought in the away goals rule in the late 60s. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-soccer-team-scores-3-2-but-still-loses-how-is-that-fair-juve-porto/937592/30 "2021-03-13T10:07:52Z")
I agree that what happens in extra time in the 2nd leg is the one weakness of the away goal system. The English League Cup had a particularly complicated solution to it in the semi-finals for a while, possibly still does. But one good thing about it is that as soon as an exact reverse of the first leg score becomes impossible then you know it can’t go to extra time or penalties. Eg if the first leg finishes 1-1, then extra time becomes impossible as soon as either team scores 2 goals in the 2nd leg. You can only have extra time if the 2 results are the same but opposite, eg each home team wins 2-1, or each game is 0-0. The away goals rule creates a situation that you don’t otherwise get in football, in that you can go in an instant from losing to winning. The best game I ever attended was the 2nd leg of the U21s European championship quarter final between Scotland and Germany in 1992. The 1st leg in Germany was 1-1. For the 2nd leg in Aberdeen there was a cash gate, 22,000 people got in with thousands locked out. Germany went 3-1 up **on the night** so Scotland had to score 3 or they would go out. Scotland did get 2, so the aggregate score was 4-4 with Germany winning on away goals. Alex Rae then scored the best goal I’ve ever seen, a diagonal long range shot into the far top corner and we were suddenly winning. It was absolutely orgasmic. The noise was unbelievable. Scotland held on and several of the German players collapsed in tears at the end. NB there was no scoreboard and the PA was inaudible after every goal, but 99% of those present knew what was happening with the scores. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-soccer-team-scores-3-2-but-still-loses-how-is-that-fair-juve-porto/937592/31 "2021-03-13T10:11:49Z")
> [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](#): > > counting the number of games one “won” 🙃 ---
**Author:** ![CardboardBoxx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardboardboxx/32/7079_2.png) [@CardboardBoxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CardboardBoxx)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-soccer-team-scores-3-2-but-still-loses-how-is-that-fair-juve-porto/937592/32 "2021-03-13T10:32:38Z")
> [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](#): > > I agree that what happens in extra time in the 2nd leg is the one weakness of the away goal system. My preferred solution for goals scored in Extra Time would be to give the win to whoever scored the last equaliser, (Extra Time only), keeping the game on a knife edge. 0-0 in Extra Time would be penalties… ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-soccer-team-scores-3-2-but-still-loses-how-is-that-fair-juve-porto/937592/33 "2021-03-13T10:52:16Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Why don’t they just do a best 2-out-of-3 contest to determine who wins? It seems silly to have a tournament with an even number of matches to force a tiebreaker. Among other things, to cut down on the sheer amount of travel and logistics involved. 2 games is better than 3 in that regard. The travel can be insane in some continental qualifiers, such as when Japan has to fly to Jordan to play Jordan in Jordan and then vice versa. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-soccer-team-scores-3-2-but-still-loses-how-is-that-fair-juve-porto/937592/34 "2021-03-13T11:56:02Z")
The crazy thing about that game was that Juve, who have had the stingiest defense in Serie A for ages (and particularly at home), gave up 2 goals in Extra Time in Turin with Porto down to 10 men. Juve has won 9 consecutive Serie A titles, although it looks like that streak will end this season. Their failures have occurred at the European Cup (Champion’s League) and so they brought in Cristiano Ronaldo, the best to ever have played the sport, to finally achieve European glory. And then this happened. I just wanted to point this out, as the game itself was so unique that I felt it should be mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![CardboardBoxx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardboardboxx/32/7079_2.png) [@CardboardBoxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CardboardBoxx)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-soccer-team-scores-3-2-but-still-loses-how-is-that-fair-juve-porto/937592/35 "2021-03-13T12:15:08Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > The crazy thing about that game was that Juve, who have had the stingiest defense in Serie A for ages (and particularly at home), gave up 2 goals in Extra Time in Turin with Porto down to 10 men. 1 goal in extra time, 1 goal in normal time. 96 minutes between them and the normal time goal was with 11 men. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-soccer-team-scores-3-2-but-still-loses-how-is-that-fair-juve-porto/937592/36 "2021-03-13T12:34:51Z")
Ah, thank you. Totally misremembered. Okay, Porto were down to 10 men with over 35 minutes left to play in Normal Time. Jive could only muster 1 goal the rest of the way, so the game went to Extra Time. Juve must have been 10-1 favorites against a tired 10-man Porto team at home. That’s what was crazy about the game. Of course that doesn’t sound so great after my alternate ending. 😁 ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-soccer-team-scores-3-2-but-still-loses-how-is-that-fair-juve-porto/937592/37 "2021-03-13T12:52:14Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Why don’t they just do a best 2-out-of-3 contest to determine who wins? It seems silly to have a tournament with an even number of matches to force a tiebreaker. That solves nothing. Any individual game can finish with the teams level so how can you have a “best of three” when a draw is an ever-present possibility? You still have to provide a method for breaking that tie ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-soccer-team-scores-3-2-but-still-loses-how-is-that-fair-juve-porto/937592/38 "2021-03-13T13:36:06Z")
[Moderating] > [@stuccosuperstar2020](#): > > Heh heh. > > I wasn’t asking you. Given that this whole thread was based on a misconception, and that you’re not interested in honest explanations of that misconception, I’m not sure what this thread is for. Closed. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-soccer-team-scores-3-2-but-still-loses-how-is-that-fair-juve-porto/937592/39 "2021-03-13T13:36:32Z")
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