# One standard for you, one standard for me... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 1, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-standard-for-you-one-standard-for-me/700088 "2014-10-01T15:11:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-standard-for-you-one-standard-for-me/700088/21 "2014-10-01T19:03:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Terr View Post > Well, njtt said there was a “vast gulf” between US attacks on ISIS and Israel’s attacks on Hamas, with its “few ineffectual rockets”. I was just agreeing that yes, there is quite a difference, since ISIS has yet to fire anything at all at the US territory. > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > I still don’t get it. How the heck would ISIS fire anything at US territory? Aren’t they half a world too far away? I can’t figure this out even allowing for if you are being sarcastic. If you can’t figure this out, let me explain it to you: Terr was reacting to **njtt**. The USA is bombing ISIS, and killing civilians. Israel bombed Hamas, and killed civilians. Yet in **njtt** ’s strange morality, Israel is evil, but the USA is not. **njtt** says the situations cannot be compared; Because Israel bombed Hamas in Gaza which is densely populated, and for no legitimate reason, because Hamas only attacked Israel with “ineffectual” rockets. So Terr is pointing out to [njtt] that since ISIS has never attacked America at all, not even with “ineffectual” rockets, it’s a little hypocritical to excuse Obama for unappologetically killing civilians, while accusing Israel. Unlike the USA, Israel not only apologized, it [telephoned the civilians in advance and warned them that a certain specific building was about to be destroyed, so get out while you can.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/07/09/roof-knocking-the-israeli-mjilitarys-tactic-of-phoning-palestinians-it-is-about-to-bomb/) (the cite is from a reputable, unbiased source—the Washington Post) ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-standard-for-you-one-standard-for-me/700088/22 "2014-10-01T19:43:58Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I think the US is correct bombing ISIS (even though it has a LOT less reason/justification to do it than Israel had bombing Hamas). I also think that civilian casualties are inevitable, and I hope that US is as careful in avoiding them as Israel was (although I have yet to hear of US making phone calls to residents asking them to leave before their area is bombed). Is that a double standard? > > But I am still waiting for Obama administration to be as publicly “appalled” by civilian casualties it is inflicting as it was by the ones inflicted by Israel. Let’s just get this straight: Israel attacked a UN school. A UN school is something, much like a hospital, that one expects the military to avoid attacking unless there are extremely compelling circumstances. Furthermore, the existence of schools (and hospitals) to be well known by military forces so they can avoid making terrible mistakes. The US appears to have attacked a civilian home, though it isn’t clear from the link I provided earlier who, exactly, was in the home. A home is not like a school or hospital in that they are not afforded the same degree of protection under the laws of war: an attack on a home merely has to be discriminant (i.e., not carpet-bombing a whole city), proportional, and related to a military objective. I think it is fair to say that the Israeli military attacked numerous civilian houses in the recent war, either intentionally or by mistake. It certainly seems clear that civilians were killed in the process, though I have virtually no doubt that such was not the intent of the attack. However, I do not believe that anyone in the US Government called out an attack on a house as being “appalling” or “disgraceful.” Those words were reserved for an attack on a clearly marked UN school. In short: these aren’t comparable things, and you should be embarrassed by your silly posts in this thread. Or at least you should wait until the US bombs a UN refugee camp, or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-standard-for-you-one-standard-for-me/700088/23 "2014-10-01T21:16:24Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Let’s just get this straight: Israel attacked a UN school. As long as we’re “getting this straight” - Israel attacked three Palestinian Jihad militants on a motorbike, killing all three. At the time they were hit, they were passing the UN school and there were casualties at the school as well. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-standard-for-you-one-standard-for-me/700088/24 "2014-10-01T21:54:31Z")
WTF, **Terr**? How could this possibly be an MPSIMS thread? Moved to GD. **twickster** , MPSIMS moderator ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-standard-for-you-one-standard-for-me/700088/25 "2014-10-01T22:04:21Z")
**Terr** ,\* stop helping.\* ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-standard-for-you-one-standard-for-me/700088/26 "2014-10-01T23:52:13Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > **Terr** ,\* stop helping.\* For the Nth time, smolani pleas are ignored. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-standard-for-you-one-standard-for-me/700088/27 "2014-10-01T23:57:57Z")
The cool thing about the terror/guerrilla wars is that anyone can be a terrorist. For all you know those little kids were lookouts or couriers. Maybe grandma’s place is a safehouse or her basement is an armory. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-standard-for-you-one-standard-for-me/700088/28 "2014-10-02T00:22:20Z")
I don’t think these two things are comparable except that they happen in the the same big region very far away. I see what was trying to be compared now, but it’s like comparing trombones to shoes because both can slide. Sort of. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-standard-for-you-one-standard-for-me/700088/29 "2014-10-02T00:53:50Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > As long as we’re “getting this straight” - Israel attacked three Palestinian Jihad militants on a motorbike, killing all three. At the time they were hit, they were passing the UN school and there were casualties at the school as well. Then I wish to amend my earlier statement that the U.S. attacked a civilian house. They didn’t attack a house. They attacked Al Qaeda affiliates who just happened to be inside a house at the moment the Tomahawk was exploding. Really, nobody is to blame but those who didn’t have the decency to be killed in an open field, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-standard-for-you-one-standard-for-me/700088/30 "2014-10-02T00:55:33Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Then I wish to amend my earlier statement that the U.S. attacked a civilian house. They didn’t attack a house. They attacked Al Qaeda affiliates who just happened to be inside a house at the moment the Tomahawk was exploding. Really, nobody is to blame but those who didn’t have the decency to be killed in an open field, I suppose. Except I have a cite for my claim. You just have your fantasies. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-standard-for-you-one-standard-for-me/700088/31 "2014-10-02T00:59:24Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Except I have a cite for my claim. You just have your fantasies. I cited Human Rights Watch earlier. Please read your own thread. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-standard-for-you-one-standard-for-me/700088/32 "2014-10-02T01:08:59Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I cited Human Rights Watch earlier. Please read your own thread. You mean this: “Three local residents told Human Rights Watch that missiles killed at least two men, two women, and five children, in the early morning hours on September 23 in the village of Kafr Deryan in northern Idlib. There is unverified information that the two men could have been members of the extremist Islamist armed group Jabhat al-Nusra.” Ah cool. Remember that [“Man returns Holocaust medal”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=731294) thread? Well, those civilians killed that he was protesting were [hosting a Hamas terrorist](http://freebeacon.com/culture/the-daily-smear/) at the time who was also killed. Justified? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-standard-for-you-one-standard-for-me/700088/33 "2014-10-02T01:34:01Z")
Are we now debating whether there is a triple standard that you’re angry about? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-standard-for-you-one-standard-for-me/700088/34 "2014-10-02T04:22:43Z")
Sometimes I find it difficult to keep track of whom wants who to kill whom for who around here and why.:mad: ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-standard-for-you-one-standard-for-me/700088/35 "2014-10-02T07:39:39Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > For the Nth time, smolani pleas are ignored. First of all, I’m actually more of a centrist - although there’s nothing wrong with being a liberal, of course. Second of all, that’s mighty big talk for a _yored_. The biggest _smolani_ in Tel Aviv is more of a Zionist than you are, because he’s here, and you aren’t. So no, you don’t get to sit in fucking Texas and criticize _me_, OK? ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-standard-for-you-one-standard-for-me/700088/36 "2014-10-02T10:06:06Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It takes some balls to condemn Israel, then go and do the same thing. With the mounting civilian casualties in the strikes on ISIS, US administration, with its record of being “appalled” at Israel’s “disgraceful” actions, is yet again exposed in its cynical hypocrisy. In the Middle Ages it was commonly believed that Jerusalem was the centre of physical Creation. Did you know that is not such a commonly held belief anymore? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-standard-for-you-one-standard-for-me/700088/37 "2014-10-02T13:07:59Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > First of all, I’m actually more of a centrist - although there’s nothing wrong with being a liberal, of course. > > Second of all, that’s mighty big talk for a _yored_. The biggest _smolani_ in Tel Aviv is more of a Zionist than you are, because he’s here, and you aren’t. So no, you don’t get to sit in fucking Texas and criticize _me_, OK? He’s not in _Texas_, he’s _on the internet!_ ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-standard-for-you-one-standard-for-me/700088/38 "2014-10-02T14:34:53Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > He’s not in _Texas_, he’s _on the internet!_ And holds Israel bonds. So he’s a share holder. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-standard-for-you-one-standard-for-me/700088/39 "2014-10-02T17:11:36Z")
Its still fine to be appalled by what Israel has done and is continuing to do, but I’m not a fan of any loosening of the restrictions on civilian deaths. It will only come back to bite us. Bad move on the White House’s part, we shouldn’t seek to be actively evil like Israel’s policy often is. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-standard-for-you-one-standard-for-me/700088/40 "2014-10-02T18:12:24Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > And holds Israel bonds. So he’s a share holder. Bonds and shares are not the same thing. In any bankruptcy proceeding, moral or financial, bondholders get what is coming to them before shareholders. An important point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-standard-for-you-one-standard-for-me/700088.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-standard-for-you-one-standard-for-me/700088.md?page=3)