# One tagger who got it right **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 6, 2007, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-tagger-who-got-it-right/386981 "2007-01-06T22:49:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2007, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-tagger-who-got-it-right/386981/81 "2007-01-08T21:44:08Z")
[QUOTE=ltfire] ‘Ari’s family has vowed to sue the LIRR and the city for failing to do more to block access to the tracks’. [/QUOTE] It’s funny—I’m pretty sure at one time this kind of bullshit would’ve been considered absurdity bordering on the surreal, the height of chutzpah. Now it’s such a by-the-numbers response that I’d only be shocked if we _didn’t_ hear about the planned lawsuit. Too bad the city can’t countersue for the cost of the cleanup and lost revenue, for the family’s failure to do more to _teach their little cretin to stay off of train tracks._ ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2007, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-tagger-who-got-it-right/386981/82 "2007-01-08T21:52:42Z")
Taggers are idiots. The kid was an idiot. An idiot getting killed while being an idiot does contain a little poetic justice in it. That doesn’t mean I’d wish death on the kid, but yeah, it’s kind of funny. I hope the parents don’t get five cents out of their bullshit lawsuit. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2007, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-tagger-who-got-it-right/386981/83 "2007-01-08T21:57:05Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Have your sister retract her allegations why doncha, and maybe I’ll chill. [/QUOTE] She didn’t make any allegations, you whiny hypersensitive snot. > [@monstro](#): > > Does all that “scrap” plywood belong to you? If not, don’t you think you’re being a little hypocritical by calling folks “thieves”? She asked you two goddamn questions, both of which you could have answered without the hostile attitude as they weren’t even accusatory, just suggestive. It’s obvious she thought you were saying it was okay to trespass on to private property and go scavenging for materials to bring home. This would constitute stealing. Folks get shot for less in Texas and Alabama. All you would have to goddamn do was say “Yeah, the scraps are mine if they are in a scrap heap, dumpsters, that kind of thing…and oh yeah, I work for a construction company and so I have insider connection to this kind of thing.” But you blithely persist in acting as if your original comment wasn’t open to interpretation and people are unfairly misunderstanding you. You choose the wrong reasons to fly off the handle. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2007, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-tagger-who-got-it-right/386981/84 "2007-01-08T22:42:23Z")
> [@](#): > > =you with the face]She didn’t make any allegations, you whiny hypersensitive snot. Wow, that took a nasty turn, now didn’t it? Suggesting that I am hypocritical for calling someone a thief is suggesting that I am A) Hypocritical and B) A thief. I don’t know how much more simpe to make it. > [@](#): > > She asked you two goddamn questions, both of which you could have answered without the hostile attitude as they weren’t even accusatory, just suggestive. Note the construction – “Don’t you think …” It’s called a loaded question. It is not a request for information. It’s a mealy-mouthed way of making an accusation. If she were curious as to the provenance of the scrap, she could have asked about it. Instead, she chose an attack. > [@](#): > > It’s obvious she thought you were saying it was okay to trespass on to private property and go scavenging for materials to bring home. This would constitute stealing. Folks get shot for less in Texas and Alabama. Can you really be this obtuse? How about you call the police the next time you see some poor soul steal cans from a dumpster, or a broken lawn mower from off the street. After all, it’s stealing. Can’t have shit like that going on. The next thing you know there’ll be a full fledged fire fight going on. Folks get shot for all sorts of stupid reasons. Doesn’t make what they were doing wrong. > [@](#): > > All you would have to goddamn do was say “Yeah, the scraps are mine if they are in a scrap heap, dumpsters, that kind of thing…and oh yeah, I work for a construction company and so I have insider connection to this kind of thing.” But you blithely persist in acting as if your original comment wasn’t open to interpretation and people are unfairly misunderstanding you. As I have said before, it never occurred to me that the word scrap, as it refers to plywood, would be open to so many interpretations. Next time I’ll be sure to stress that the scrap is indeed scrap because it had in fact been scrapped and deposited with the rest of the scrap on the scrap heap. Clear enough? I do not need insider connections to be able to tell a pile of junk from a stack of lumber. You wouldn’t either, if you would just apply yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2007, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-tagger-who-got-it-right/386981/85 "2007-01-08T22:44:33Z")
Coding!! Little help please! ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-tagger-who-got-it-right/386981/86 "2007-01-09T06:45:40Z")
Going to be interesting seeing how that law suit goes. Suddenly it’s someone _else’s_ fault the kid was there? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-tagger-who-got-it-right/386981/87 "2007-01-09T14:16:45Z")
Would be nice if the train authority could countersue the parents for failing to supervise their kid, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-tagger-who-got-it-right/386981/88 "2007-01-09T16:30:41Z")
[QUOTE=monstro] My parents did a great job raising me, but when I went to Paris as a 10th grader, I nonetheless risked my life breaking the law. You want to know what law I broke? Jaywalking across the Champs-Élysées with a group of other kids. We were giddy and silly, drunk on freedom and being in a beautiful city millions of miles from home. Our concept of “crosswalk” was momentarily forgotten in all the excitement and bright lights. It was a fuckwit moment that had absolutely NOTHING to do with how I was raised or how bad a person I am. [/quote] You do realize that this is in no way similar to the story in the OP right? You had a moment where you spaced out on where a crosswalk was where the kid in the OP was well known for his vandalism. Hardly a fuckwit moment, more like a fuckwit way of life. ---
**Author:** ![jali](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecae2f/32.png) [@jali](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jali)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-tagger-who-got-it-right/386981/89 "2007-01-09T16:54:53Z")
Anyone’s grandpop write, [Kilroy Was Here](http://www.ohiohistory.org/etcetera/exhibits/kilroy/) ? Criminal! ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-tagger-who-got-it-right/386981/90 "2007-01-09T17:27:56Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Probably not. Check with the superintendent. [/QUOTE] And he’ll say, "C’mon, boys! There’s lots of stuff you can paint here (if you’re not afraid of a little hard work, that is. Yes Tommy, I’m looking in your direction you little dickens!). When you’re done, you can sing campfire songs and then have a “rap” “session” about going steady, and why it’s wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Pabitel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@Pabitel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pabitel)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-tagger-who-got-it-right/386981/91 "2007-01-09T17:53:25Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] [Yeah](http://www.graffiti.org/sfb/angel.jpg), [beautiful](http://www.graffiti.org/sfb/canvas1.jpg), [and](http://www.graffiti.org/sfb/horse5.jpg) [patriotic](http://www.nyc.com/image/users/blogs/2644.jpg), [and](http://www.graffiti.org/sfb/girl1.jpg) [lots](http://www.graffiti.org/sfb/sun.jpg) [of](http://www.graffiti.org/sfb/sabor.jpg) [other](http://www.cnskillz.de/400/1997_blumen_02-thumb.jpg) [things](http://www.arthistoryclub.com/art_history/upload/thumb/e/e3/175px-Banksy.bomb.jpg) [too](http://corporate.basf.com/file/22332.bild1). [/QUOTE] I’m sorry but I am having a hard time grasping your point here. Are you saying that if you woke up one morning and found one of these on the side of your house or business or investment property that you would say, “Oh Boy! Somebody gave me some free art!”? Just as a rose growing where you don’t want it can be a weed any of these, when used to deface somebody elses property is ugly. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-tagger-who-got-it-right/386981/92 "2007-01-09T18:24:41Z")
[QUOTE=saoirse] And he’ll say, "C’mon, boys! There’s lots of stuff you can paint here (if you’re not afraid of a little hard work, that is. Yes Tommy, I’m looking in your direction you little dickens!). When you’re done, you can sing campfire songs and then have a “rap” “session” about going steady, and why it’s wrong. [/QUOTE] I can tell that this is not going to work for you. You have way too much negative energy invested in it. You do have other options. You can look for a contractor doing small remodelling jobs and ask him or her for scrap plywood. They would much rather you take it than have to haul it away themselves. Or, you can buy a sheet of plywood. B/C should run about $15-$20, significantly cheaper than a similarly sized canvas. After that, you can tag to your heart’s content. Hope this helps. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-tagger-who-got-it-right/386981/93 "2007-01-09T19:06:35Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] I can tell that this is not going to work for you. You have way too much negative energy invested in it. [/QUOTE] You’re right. Sorry, I’ll stop now. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-tagger-who-got-it-right/386981/94 "2007-01-09T20:00:30Z")
[QUOTE=Dinsdale] Would be nice if the train authority could countersue the parents for failing to supervise their kid, etc. [/QUOTE] The motorman of the train that hit the kid should sue the family for pain and anguish the kid caused him. He has to live with that incident for the rest of his life. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-tagger-who-got-it-right/386981/95 "2007-01-09T20:56:22Z")
[QUOTE=Pábitel] I’m sorry but I am having a hard time grasping your point here. Are you saying that if you woke up one morning and found one of these on the side of your house or business or investment property that you would say, “Oh Boy! Somebody gave me some free art!”? Just as a rose growing where you don’t want it can be a weed any of these, when used to deface somebody elses property is ugly. [/QUOTE] Depends on the nature of the property and the location of the grafitti. If it were my house, yes, I’d be pissed. If it were in the back alley of a store I owned, or just about anywhere in my multi-level concrete parking garage… meh. There’s a lot of dull, concrete structures in any given city that are actually improved by some creative grafitti. Of course, I recognize that not everyone who owns that sort of property feels the same way I do, and anyone caught painting them without permission should of course be prosecuted. But honestly, I’d rather look at a bright, colorful mural than a dull concrete overpass or condemned tenement wall. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-tagger-who-got-it-right/386981/96 "2007-01-09T21:20:34Z")
I’m sorry the kid got killed, but _piss_ on taggers. Bunch of sociopathic, sneaky little weasels in my book. And the so-called “artistic” grafitti is shit, too. It takes a bizarre combination of cravenness and arrogance sneak in and deface someone else’s property with your version of “art” in the dark of night. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-tagger-who-got-it-right/386981/97 "2007-01-09T23:00:54Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > My personal hypothesis (not yet tested, but I WILL do a research study one day ) is that as individuals, particularly youths, have become more and more disenfranchised from the community at large, they have an increasing desire to leave their mark literally on the landscape. Which is all well and good, so long as the taggers realize that as law-abiding citizens, particulary property owners, have become more and more disenfranchised from these vandalizing little a-holes, we have an increasing desire to leave our mark literally on their droopy-pantsed little asses. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-tagger-who-got-it-right/386981/98 "2007-01-10T14:13:02Z")
[QUOTE=Renee] Hu. I never thought of myself as owning the rail cars before. They are, to me, bland objects that get in my way sometimes then pass into the distance, never to be seen again. Do Americans “own” the rail cars? I was under the impression (perhaps from Monopoly) that the rail-ways were independently owned, but I never really looked into it. I would be offended by graffiti on passenger rail cars, but freight ones? Not really. [/QUOTE] Of course! How silly of me. It’s not _your_ property, so vandalise away! ---
**Author:** ![Sleel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/73ab20/32.png) [@Sleel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleel)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-tagger-who-got-it-right/386981/99 "2007-01-12T00:46:38Z")
The last time I was in San Francisco I saw a guy doing street art with cans of spray paint. He’d invested a little bit in a cheap paper painter’s tarp to protect the sidewalk, a halfway decent respirator, and some plywood stencils. His medium was thin pieces of either particle board, veneer, or delaminated plywood that looked like scrap cut to size. I was darn impressed with both the quality of his work and his economy of movement. I saw two tourists make offers on some pieces in the 5-10 minutes I watched him. Instead of tagging the sides of buildings, he was using the same skillset to make art and, maybe not so incidentally, some money too. I realize that for some kids the thrill of doing something wrong is probably the main draw, but there are some who just want to make something cool. I’ve seen some spray-painted murals that were really impressive. One was a designated spot that the city indicated for the purpose. If it’s really about putting your work in a permanent public place, there’s really no reason you can’t ask the owner for permission. Heck, considering the quality of some of the work, I might _invite_ a good tagger/street artist to use the side of my building if I lived in an urban area. If it’s all about the infraction, then you’re really just a thrill-seeker. Why not do something that fills that need but doesn’t cause damage? Start [Free](http://www.urbanfreeflow.com/)-[Running](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkour) or something. You’re still technically trespassing but not doing anything that actually harms someone else or their property. And yes, vandalism is potentially more damaging than theft. With valuables, you can only steal something once. With tagging, the damage continues until either the building owner or the tagger gives up, or until the tagger is caught and punished. Every time you clean off the paint, it costs time and money, and it’s a psychological violation every single time. It’s like having your place broken into over and over again. Whether the person who breaks in steals something or not, it makes you feel like crap. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-tagger-who-got-it-right/386981/100 "2007-01-12T15:42:42Z")
[QUOTE=Sleel] The last time I was in San Francisco I saw a guy doing street art with cans of spray paint. He’d invested a little bit in a cheap paper painter’s tarp to protect the sidewalk, a halfway decent respirator, and some plywood stencils. His medium was thin pieces of either particle board, veneer, or delaminated plywood that looked like scrap cut to size. [/QUOTE] Now that’s a hell of a good idea. One problem I see is that scrap plywood is notoriously hard to obtain, due to the difficulty if identifying it, and the fact that most people are darned possessive of their scrap plywood, to the point of shooting on sight those who attempt to haul it away. At least in Alabama and Texas. I’ve heard folks are a bit more open-minded in SF. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-tagger-who-got-it-right/386981.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-tagger-who-got-it-right/386981.md?page=6)