# One thing George Lucas doesn't get enough credit for (actually 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 27, 2015, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159 "2015-03-27T21:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/41 "2015-03-28T00:32:42Z")
But Vetenari could take down anybody. If he had been in the Senate the whole thing would have been resolved in a 15 minute short. But **Miller** said something that makes me ponder…what if the Millenium Falcon **was** sentient? What if it had sort of a _Dahak_ thing going? Maybe it was the one who manipulated Han into coming back to the rescue in the first movie. It always seems to be in the right place at the right time. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/42 "2015-03-28T00:39:52Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I’m rather curious what Palpatine’s motive is:? > > According to Jedi theology, he’s someone who has given in to anger and hatred and fear, and so is theoretically spiteful, destructive, and chaotic. However, the man we see is cool, scheming, and his greatest desire in life is to create an ordered and well-functioning galactic empire. 😕 > > Overall, I think it would be fairly easy to argue that the greatest villain in the Star Wars series was Princess Leia, as the ring leader of a bunch of terrorists. Yes, but the few times you see Palpatine in the prequels, when he is a hologram giving orders, he is devious and wicked and menacing. So the guy has two faces, and he reveals the false one the majority of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/43 "2015-03-28T00:55:16Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Yes, but the few times you see Palpatine in the prequels, when he is a hologram giving orders, he is devious and wicked and menacing. So the guy has two faces, and he reveals the false one the majority of the time. You think American politicians don’t lie to you? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/44 "2015-03-28T01:04:01Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > You think American politicians don’t lie to you? I’m not a Star Wars expert. My thread was largely inspired by this thread: There was no plausible way for Palpatine to loose. Probably his most vulnerable point was directly interacting with master Jedi and the sword fight in ROTS. But you realize there was really no way even at the beginning of TPM he could lose, no matter what the Jedi or our heroes do. If Padme got killed back on her home planet then it would be an outrage and she would be a martyr and it would justify republic action. If the Jedi turned Anakin away and refused to train him, Palpy would just snatch him up and train him. If the Jedi refused the clone army, then what? A couple million clones who know nothing but war are released in the galaxy, so the separatists hire them and attack the republic with them starting the same damn war. Basically the galaxy was screwed for a decade at least before the start of TPM, and no matter what the protagonist’s do it probably would have turned out the same way. One of the few cool things I noticed about the prequels. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=750653&highlight=Palpatine](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=750653&highlight=Palpatine) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/45 "2015-03-28T01:10:10Z")
Oh, I don’t know. He could always have been hit by a bus or caught some sort of space herpes. But yeah, that’s why the prequels play out as a tragedy and the [del]three[/del] 2.5 real movies play as a comedy. Lucas had some dim memory of a lecture or two at USC and found the Cliff Notes for “Hero With a Thousand Faces.” That and a pound of weed and viola! ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/46 "2015-03-28T01:15:55Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Oh, I don’t know. He could always have been hit by a bus or caught some sort of space herpes. > > But yeah, that’s why the prequels play out as a tragedy and the [del]three[/del] 2.5 real movies play as a comedy. Lucas had some dim memory of a lecture or two at USC and found the Cliff Notes for “Hero With a Thousand Faces.” That and a pound of weed and viola! Doesn’t Lucas claim that when he wrote the original Star Wars he’d never hear of Hero With a Thousand Faces? Or are you saying he read it later and tried ineptly to apply it? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/47 "2015-03-28T01:24:44Z")
I have to admit, that fight between Palpatine and Yoda in the senate in RotS was pretty badass. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/48 "2015-03-28T01:31:11Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Darth Maul is a cool design, but I’d hesitate to call him a character. He’s got no evident personality, no clear motivations (besides “Argh! Jedis!”) and nothing even remotely resembling a character arc. The Millennium Falcon is a better defined character than he is. And has almost as much dialogue. Completely agree, and remember that we never actually get to see him doing much real villainy beyond striking Mexican Wrestler poses. The first time he fights he picks a fair fight one on one with a guy a foot taller than him; the second time he picks on the guy a foot taller than him _and_ that guy’s buddy. We’re clearly meant to see him as some sort of feral with Force powers, but shit, the dude’s actual behaviour is chivalrous to the point of lunacy. And Palpatine’s master villainy only works because the Jedi Council are as dumb as a bag of hammers. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/49 "2015-03-28T01:33:36Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > Completely agree, and remember that we never actually get to see him doing much real villainy beyond striking Mexican Wrestler poses. The first time he fights he picks a fair fight one on one with a guy a foot taller than him; the second time he picks on the guy a foot taller than him _and_ that guy’s buddy. We’re clearly meant to see him as some sort of feral with Force powers, but shit, the dude’s actual behaviour is chivalrous to the point of lunacy. And Palpatine’s master villainy only works because the Jedi Council are as dumb as a bag of hammers. Why do you use the word Chivalrous??? > [@](#): > > And Palpatine’s master villainy only works because the Jedi Council are as dumb as a bag of hammers. Yeah, I forgot about that part. I mean, he could of fooled them if it had been written better but yeah, they were pretty stupid in the movie(s). ---
**Author:** ![HeXen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@HeXen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeXen)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/50 "2015-03-28T01:33:41Z")
Kinda like Vaas in Farcry 3. A great villain that deserved a sequel imo. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/51 "2015-03-28T01:39:54Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Why do you use the word Chivalrous??? Because Maul is set up as being some sort of fanatical slavering beast man, Palpatine’s mad dog, but when he actually fights he takes pains to make sure he’s either evenly matched or outnumbered. Vader had no qualms about tormenting the helpless, and it made him a much more intimidating villain: the dude would throttle people on his own side to make a debating point. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/52 "2015-03-28T01:51:19Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > Because Maul is set up as being some sort of fanatical slavering beast man, Palpatine’s mad dog, but when he actually fights he takes pains to make sure he’s either evenly matched or outnumbered. Vader had no qualms about tormenting the helpless, and it made him a much more intimidating villain: the dude would throttle people on his own side to make a debating point. But didn’t he sneak attack Qui Gin on their first meeting??? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/53 "2015-03-28T02:07:13Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Doesn’t Lucas claim that when he wrote the original Star Wars he’d never hear of Hero With a Thousand Faces? Or are you saying he read it later and tried ineptly to apply it? I’m saying Lucas is a lying sack of bantha droppings. A list of the things Lucas has lied about dealing with these movies would fill several books. You can’t rely on anything George says about _anything_. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/54 "2015-03-28T02:08:31Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I’m saying Lucas is a lying sack of bantha droppings. A list of the things Lucas has lied about dealing with these movies would fill several books. You can’t rely on anything George says about _anything_. oh, yeah, that’s probably true ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/55 "2015-03-28T02:18:02Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > But Vetenari could take down anybody. If he had been in the Senate the whole thing would have been resolved in a 15 minute short. > > But **Miller** said something that makes me ponder…what if the Millenium Falcon **was** sentient? What if it had sort of a _Dahak_ thing going? Maybe it was the one who manipulated Han into coming back to the rescue in the first movie. It always seems to be in the right place at the right time. I kinda like the fan-theory that Chewie and R2-D2 are secretly _very_ high level Rebel Operatives. It would be kinda cool if the MF’s main computer is the _other_ sentient “partner”/operative to master-secret-agent Chewie. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/56 "2015-03-28T02:27:28Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > But didn’t he sneak attack Qui Gin on their first meeting??? I don’t think he does - aren’t they in the middle of a desert? Hard to sneak up on a guy on a flat, featureless plain at midday. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/57 "2015-03-28T03:01:33Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I don’t think he does - aren’t they in the middle of a desert? Hard to sneak up on a guy on a flat, featureless plain at midday. He flys in on a scotter jumps off and rushes at Qui Jins back… ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/58 "2015-03-28T03:30:32Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I don’t think he does - aren’t they in the middle of a desert? Hard to sneak up on a guy on a flat, featureless plain at midday. Especially when you’re riding what amounts to a large motorcycle. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/59 "2015-03-28T03:50:39Z")
See, this is precisely why Lucas became such a shitty storyteller, because he’d expect us to assume things about a character simply because his script says so: Darth Maul is a deadly predator who strikes from ambush without warning! We have seen him folding his arms and scowling! He is BAD! Except that the scene Lucas wrote shows him bushwhacking some dullard by riding a noisy vehicle up behind him and then jumping out to fight him with a sword; it’s rather like Qui-Gon being taken unawares by a St Patrick’s Day parade, and it ends up not as a testament to the Sith’s ruthless cunning, but the Jedi’s lazy ineptitude. You end up thinking, “You know, Maul played a pretty straight bat on that one”. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/60 "2015-03-28T04:03:02Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > it’s rather like Qui-Gon being taken unawares by a St Patrick’s Day parade… :smack::smack::smack::D:D:D What a perfect description. And I learned from reading this thread that Lucas didn’t even come up for the look for Darth Maul. He had someone else do it!!! And then he probably told the fight choreographer “I want a fighting style that is very intimidating and aggressive!!! Make him look really tough and evil!!!”… you won’t get any credit for it but you will get a paycheck. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159.md?page=4)