# One thing George Lucas doesn't get enough credit for (actually 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 27, 2015, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159 "2015-03-27T21:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/101 "2015-04-01T15:37:09Z")
> [@The\_Winkler](#): > > I thought Yoda looked ridiculous leaping around the screen with a light saber. It reminded me of the Korean Midget Wrestlers that Archie Bunker loved to watch. I never thought much of the Flying Frog of Fury, either. ETA: Before AotC, I had always pictured Yoda fighting much like Kwai Chang Caine did: calm, slow, graceful movements that somehow deflected his enemy’s blows. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/102 "2015-04-01T15:43:19Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > … you won’t get any credit for it but you will get a paycheck. That may be the most succinct description of “creative work for hire” that I have ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/103 "2015-04-01T20:28:09Z")
> [@The\_Winkler](#): > > I thought Yoda looked ridiculous leaping around the screen with a light saber. It reminded me of the Korean Midget Wrestlers that Archie Bunker loved to watch. Yeah, I agree. To me, Darth Maul’s athletic fighting style indicated that he was relatively weak in the Force. He had to compensate through physical ability. I suppose that’s partly a take-away from the original movies. Luke does the most running and jumping in combat. Vader (especially in ESB) often just stands there fighting one-handed. Palpatine (in ROTJ) doesn’t even get out of his seat until the end, and can kill you literally by just raising his hands. Then we get transported back to the prequels when, apparently, your capability with the Force is all about the number of lightsabers you have, and how much jumping around you do. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/104 "2015-04-01T21:04:05Z")
Though apparently there is quite a backstory created for Yoda’s fighting style (Ataru style). > **[Form IV](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Form_IV)** > > Keeping your saber moving is key to deflecting the fire from multiple adversaries. Fluid motion, one into the next, into the next, and so on. I've made some adjustments to the classic Form IV techniques that I think you'll find work well against... ---
**Author:** ![GoodOldKJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GoodOldKJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GoodOldKJ)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/105 "2015-04-01T21:21:01Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > I never thought much of the Flying Frog of Fury, either. > > ETA: Before AotC, I had always pictured Yoda fighting much like Kwai Chang Caine did: calm, slow, graceful movements that somehow deflected his enemy’s blows. Thats how I always felt and have to admit disappointment at his style. But my kids LOVED it ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/106 "2015-04-01T23:34:08Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Lucas had some dim memory of a lecture or two at USC and found the Cliff Notes for “Hero With a Thousand Faces.” That and a pound of weed and viola! Playing the viola while stoned helped Lucas get the inspiration for the Star Wars movies? Who knew! I’d have figured him for a cellist, myself. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/107 "2015-04-01T23:51:32Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I’m rather curious what Palpatine’s motive is:? > > According to Jedi theology, he’s someone who has given in to anger and hatred and fear, and so is theoretically spiteful, destructive, and chaotic. However, the man we see is cool, scheming, and his greatest desire in life is to create an ordered and well-functioning galactic empire. 😕 At least according to the (soon to be obsolete) EU, his goal was to replace the Rule of Two with the Rule of One, and live forever in a succession of cloned bodies as the perfect vessel for the Dark Side. Being emperor of the galaxy was almost a side project. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2015, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/108 "2015-04-02T02:43:50Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Darth Maul is a cool design, but I’d hesitate to call him a character. He’s got no evident personality, no clear motivations (besides “Argh! Jedis!”) and nothing even remotely resembling a character arc. The Millennium Falcon is a better defined character than he is. And has almost as much dialogue. Boba Fett is considered one of the greatest character’s in the series. And he has like 2 lines, 2 minutes of screen time and dies by getting rocketed into a giant sand vagina like Wyle E Coyote. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2015, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/109 "2015-04-02T02:46:30Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > Yeah, I agree. To me, Darth Maul’s athletic fighting style indicated that he was relatively weak in the Force. He had to compensate through physical ability. > > I suppose that’s partly a take-away from the original movies. Luke does the most running and jumping in combat. Vader (especially in ESB) often just stands there fighting one-handed. Palpatine (in ROTJ) doesn’t even get out of his seat until the end, and can kill you literally by just raising his hands. > > Then we get transported back to the prequels when, apparently, your capability with the Force is all about the number of lightsabers you have, and how much jumping around you do. :smack: I don’t know if that’s an indicator of Force ability, or due more to the fact that: A) Luke is younger (also remember Yoda trained him by having him run jump and climb through the jungle) B) Vader is a half-broiled cyborg and probably can’t move around so quick C) Palpatine is old as fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2015, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/110 "2015-04-02T04:05:29Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Boba Fett is considered one of the greatest character’s in the series. And he has like 2 lines, 2 minutes of screen time and dies by getting rocketed into a giant sand vagina like Wyle E Coyote. Yeah, but he has a really cool helmet. That counts for a lot. Seriously, though, I agree that Boba Fett isn’t much of a character, either. I think he gets a bit more development than Maul, but not a lot. The key difference, I think, is that he not only lived through the movie that introduced him, he actually defeated the protagonists. And then audiences had three years to speculate about who he was and what his deal was going to be. Of course, _Jedi_ completely cocked up the follow through, but I don’t know anyone who likes Boba Fett in _Return of the Jedi_. His popularity is pretty much all about the set up and anticipation from the second movie, which actually did an excellent job of setting him up as an enigmatic and dangerous opponent. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2015, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/111 "2015-04-02T13:36:04Z")
[Obligatory Robot Chicken](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo10xiHvR_c) ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2015, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/112 "2015-04-02T13:46:10Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Though apparently there is quite a backstory created for Yoda’s fighting style (Ataru style). > > [Form IV | Wookieepedia | Fandom](http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_IV) There is in fact a Massive Backstory for every damn thing in all six movies. I was surprised to find out that Jabba’s Cacklemonkey Muppet had his own backstory. The two legged Shark Frog in Jabba’s Palace had his own backstory. EVERY SINGLE CREATURE in the cantina scene had a name and a backstory. I finally gave up when I discovered the Massive Backstory behind Ice Cream Maker Man, an extra who appears for two seconds during the evacuation of Cloud City in TESB, carrying what appears to be an ice cream maker. After reading his Wookieepedia article, I officially gave up on the Expanded Universe. Too. Much. Information. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2015, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/113 "2015-04-02T13:50:17Z")
Weirdly enough, though, I can’t help but think Boba Fett’s popularity has to do COMPLETELY with his mask and his vagueness. He first appeared in an animated segment in the Star Wars Holiday Special, as an amoral bounty hunter who didn’t really work for either side, but was interested in the reward being offered for our heroes. Shortly thereafter, he appeared as an action figure you could get by sending in proofs of purchase. That was it. Until TESB came out, that was all we had. And Boba Fett became a vicarious insertion for a lot of us. He was a Star Wars Guy who could go either way, who had no face, but was a serious badass no matter WHICH way he jumped. He could even have been female, until it was later established he wasn’t. No wonder he was popular. He could have been any of us, and any number of us would happily have been him. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2015, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/114 "2015-04-02T14:31:31Z")
> [@Master\_Wang-Ka](#): > > There is in fact a Massive Backstory for every damn thing in all six movies. I was surprised to find out that Jabba’s Cacklemonkey Muppet had his own backstory. The two legged Shark Frog in Jabba’s Palace had his own backstory. EVERY SINGLE CREATURE in the cantina scene had a name and a backstory. > > I finally gave up when I discovered the Massive Backstory behind Ice Cream Maker Man, an extra who appears for two seconds during the evacuation of Cloud City in TESB, carrying what appears to be an ice cream maker. > > After reading his Wookieepedia article, I officially gave up on the Expanded Universe. Too. Much. Information. What did if for me was Camie, Deak, and Fixer. Let me explain. Originally, there was going to be a scene in _Star Wars_ where Luke, having witnessed the space battle through his binoculars, would run back and tell his friends about it, and his friends didn’t believe him. Those friends were named Camie, Deak, and Fixer. This scene does seem to have been filmed, but it wasn’t included in the final cut of the movie. It did show up in the novelization and in the Marvel comics adaptation. So, these are characters who NEVER APPEARED IN THE FILM. Even if they had, they would have had maybe a minute or two of screen time, tops, and only a couple of lines apiece. But, as mentioned, they didn’t actually appear at all. You guessed it. They all have Massive Backstories, and have had whole EU novels devoted to them. There is nothing in Star Wars so trivial that it can’t develop an insanely detailed history and backstory. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2015, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/115 "2015-04-02T15:50:52Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I think the point is just to contrast the Jedi and the Sith. When waiting to fight, the Jedi calmly meditates, while the Sith paces back and forth like a caged animal. > > Actually not a bad bit of visual shorthand, there. I can’t find a clip to back it up (then again, I only did a cursory search), but in the MMO _Star Wars The Old Republic_, the Jedi knight class heals itself between battles by kneeling down and meditating, and the Sith Inquisitor heals itself by pacing back and forth. I thought that was a nice touch. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2015, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/116 "2015-04-02T16:46:29Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I don’t know if that’s an indicator of Force ability, or due more to the fact that: > A) Luke is younger (also remember Yoda trained him by having him run jump and climb through the jungle) > B) Vader is a half-broiled cyborg and probably can’t move around so quick > C) Palpatine is old as fuck. Yeah, that makes sense as an alternative interpretation, though I’m not sure the prequels support it any more than my theory. On the cyborg front, Grievous and Darth Maul 2.0 (from the Clone Wars cartoon) are both ridiculously agile. And so are Yoda and Palpatine even though both of them were already old at the beginning. Ultimately, I think we have to just chalk it up to budgets and choreography rather than an in-universe explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2015, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/117 "2015-04-02T18:49:55Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > There is nothing in Star Wars so trivial that it can’t develop an insanely detailed history and backstory. Do you see that as good or bad? I don’t have the time to read all that but I think it’s kinda’ cool (as long as it’s all consistent). Tolkien did the same thing with his universe. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/118 "2015-04-02T19:01:15Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Do you see that as good or bad? I don’t have the time to read all that but I think it’s kinda’ cool (as long as it’s all consistent). Tolkien did the same thing with his universe. I guess I don’t see it as either good or bad, so much as…interesting. With all the various connotations that word can summon up. 🙂 It does tell me that the “Extended Universe” is, like you say, something I don’t have the time to read. It ultimately does me no harm, so I don’t rant about it or anything. But I find it vaguely puzzling that anyone cared about these remnants of the rough cut sufficiently to even wonder what their lives might have been like, let alone write about it. On the other hand, I see from Wookiepedia that Camie, in the deleted scenes, was played by Koo Stark! That alone justifies any amount of interest! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2015, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/119 "2015-04-02T19:08:02Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > But I find it vaguely puzzling that anyone cared about these remnants of the rough cut sufficiently to even wonder what their lives might have been like, let alone write about it. Wait, you are puzzled by the depth of fanwank of Star Wars nerds?!? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159/120 "2015-04-02T19:25:39Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > I guess I don’t see it as either good or bad, so much as…interesting. With all the various connotations that word can summon up. 🙂 > > It does tell me that the “Extended Universe” is, like you say, something I don’t have the time to read. It ultimately does me no harm, so I don’t rant about it or anything. But I find it vaguely puzzling that anyone cared about these remnants of the rough cut sufficiently to even wonder what their lives might have been like, let alone write about it. > > On the other hand, I see from Wookiepedia that Camie, in the deleted scenes, was played by Koo Stark! That alone justifies any amount of interest! 🙂 Saying that someone “cared” might be stretching it a bit much. One of my favorite books from the extended universe is Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina. There’s a dozen or more stories and each is based on someone you see in the background of the cantina scene. Very few of those stories have anything drawn directly from the movie but a face. For example, how do we know that the hookah smoker is really a brain-sucking alien assassin? We don’t, but it makes for a fun short story. There was no burning need to expand that character, but they were going to write a story about _someone_. Once written, now it’s embedded as part of the EU. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-thing-george-lucas-doesnt-get-enough-credit-for-actually-2/716159.md?page=7)