# One true miracle I witnessed **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 10, 2004, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-true-miracle-i-witnessed/244422 "2004-05-10T05:54:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![START](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@START](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/START)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-true-miracle-i-witnessed/244422/1 "2004-05-10T05:54:16Z")
This happened atleast a year ago…One time I went to this “party” put on by the leaders of my youth group and this little boy knocked the heck out of his head on a table. He had this nasty looking, bloody lump growing on his head and he was screaming and crying and all these women from the church got around him and started praying and I saw that lump go back to normal…I was shocked. Needless to say if something like that happens at a church function everybody gets real excited and thats what happened. The child’s mom said “see what happens if you trust God.” Anyway you can believe that this never really happened I can’t do anything about that but if you believe it happened then you would probably have to admit that it was truly a miracle. I know what I saw and I have no explanation for it except that it was a miracle. ---
**Author:** ![griffen2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ce7236/32.png) [@griffen2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffen2)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-true-miracle-i-witnessed/244422/2 "2004-05-10T05:57:08Z")
Cool. Maybe, once he’s finished giving minor first aid to clumsy kids, he can do something about the thousands of babies born with AIDS in the third world. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-true-miracle-i-witnessed/244422/3 "2004-05-10T06:20:11Z")
Shouldn’t they have taken him to a hospital rather than standing around praying? ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-true-miracle-i-witnessed/244422/4 "2004-05-10T06:32:44Z")
I’m wondering if this isn’t partly just a question of an open wound clotting. If someone is bleeding, unless an artery has been severed or something, give them a few minutes and the bleeding will stop. (And if an artery has been severed, the bleeding will also stop, just not in a good way.) It’s kind of hard to have a very meaningful opinion about this, based as it is on a fairly sketchy account by an anonymous poster on a Web page. It’s funny how “miraculous healings” always seem to involve stuff like people getting over diseases–which people do even without divine intervention–and never, say, someone re-growing a limb or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-true-miracle-i-witnessed/244422/5 "2004-05-10T06:36:06Z")
> [@griffen2](#): > > Cool. Maybe, once he’s finished giving minor first aid to clumsy kids, he can do something about the thousands of babies born with AIDS in the third world. Now, now. It may be “minor first aid” now, but look at it through the filter of 2,000 years of thirdhand reports, and it’ll be a kid who accidentally fell into a wheat thresher, got sliced into a zillion bloody chunks, and miraculously reassembled and brought back to life… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-true-miracle-i-witnessed/244422/6 "2004-05-10T06:45:57Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > It’s funny how “miraculous healings” always seem to involve stuff like people getting over diseases–which people do even without divine intervention–and never, say, someone re-growing a limb or something like that. Oh I once got a first hand report of a leg that was shorter than its mate growing to match right before the reporter’s eyes just from the laying on of hands. I’m afraid I reacted badly and hurt some feelings. I’ve since learned to say “Gee” and let it go at that, while backing away slowly. ---
**Author:** ![START](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@START](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/START)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-true-miracle-i-witnessed/244422/7 "2004-05-10T06:46:31Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > Shouldn’t they have taken him to a hospital rather than standing around praying? As far as I know they did take him to a doctor later that day because one of the church members insisted on it just to make sure he was ok and of course he was…what I saw was a lump that went back down after the kid was prayed for…anyway this is not to convert anyone it’s just to let people know that when I see things like that I can’t help but to have an even stronger faith in God. ---
**Author:** ![griffen2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ce7236/32.png) [@griffen2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffen2)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-true-miracle-i-witnessed/244422/8 "2004-05-10T06:48:53Z")
I don’t mean to be an arsehole here but I have to ask, if such incidents as the one with this boy reaffirm your faith what do incidents like [this](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3348613.stm) do to it? ---
**Author:** ![griffen2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ce7236/32.png) [@griffen2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffen2)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-true-miracle-i-witnessed/244422/9 "2004-05-10T06:50:17Z")
I mean surely God is wise enough to know that, in terms of priorities, preventing an earthquake that killed fifty thousand people is _slightly_ higher up the totem than curing a bump on a little boys noggin. ---
**Author:** ![griffen2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ce7236/32.png) [@griffen2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffen2)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-true-miracle-i-witnessed/244422/10 "2004-05-10T06:55:24Z")
Never mind, you don’t have to answer that. You said you’re not trying to convert anyone so I don’t suppose I have any right to grill you over your faith. [sub]These three two line posts brought to you by the only message board on the entire fucking internet that doesn’t have an edit function. I mean whaddafuck?[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-true-miracle-i-witnessed/244422/11 "2004-05-10T06:57:41Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > It’s kind of hard to have a very meaningful opinion about this, based as it is on a fairly sketchy account by an anonymous poster on a Web page. Absolutely. I’m fairly religous, but the God I know doesn’t work like that. He _could_ do it, but why? Reports of “miracles” make me skeptical. I’ve seen magicians like David Copperfield and David Blaine perform feats I can’t explain. Those aren’t miracles. **START** , this may have been a mentalist’s trick. Unscrupulous religous leaders have been using slight of hand and mentalists’ tricks since the dawn of time. A strong faith is kept strong by the constant questioning of it’s owner. ---
**Author:** ![START](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@START](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/START)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-true-miracle-i-witnessed/244422/12 "2004-05-10T07:02:46Z")
> [@griffen2](#): > > I don’t mean to be an arsehole here but I have to ask, if such incidents as the one with this boy reaffirm your faith what do incidents like [this](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3348613.stm) do to it? I read about the earthquake and it’s sad but many people die everyday and I’m sure many people are healed everyday…maybe if God had not healed this little boy he would have died and maybe he is supposed to grow up and save millions of lives with some kind of cancer cure or maybe he will save lives another way…then again maybe not but God is so wise that we cannot know what his intentions are. I am just a normal dude who saw something that was obviously some type of supernatural healing. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-true-miracle-i-witnessed/244422/13 "2004-05-10T07:16:34Z")
> [@START](#): > > As far as I know they did take him to a doctor later that day because one of the church members insisted on it just to make sure he was ok and of course he was… Guess I should have been more clear. Shouldn’t they have taken him to a doctor RIGHT AWAY, rather than standing around praying? ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-true-miracle-i-witnessed/244422/14 "2004-05-10T07:18:13Z")
Well I mean of course the supernatural is the only way to explain something that you yourself said happened a year ago… I don’t know if I trust your memory that much anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-true-miracle-i-witnessed/244422/15 "2004-05-10T07:27:13Z")
I don’t either believe or disbelieve what you wrote–it’s one of those things for whcih I’d require a bit more documentation, etc. But I would like to make one point: performing a miracle does not allow one to state with confidence that one’s view of God or religion is true. Jesus’ walking on the water, for example, is not proof that everything he says is true. Mind is not distinct from matter–both influence each other. It is possible that those praying themselves accomplished the healing without the aid of transcendent beings. Or beings might have helped them, regardless of whether they fit their idea of reality. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-true-miracle-i-witnessed/244422/16 "2004-05-10T07:41:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Anyway you can believe that this never really happened I can’t do anything about that but if you believe it happened then you would probably have to admit that it was truly a miracle. I know what I saw and I have no explanation for it except that it was a miracle. Let me get this straight: his head swelled, and then after a bit the swelling went down. THAT is the sum total of the miracle? Not to be dismissive, but that doesn’t require any special explanation. Swelling goes down. All the time. Any intervention from God would have been entirely redundant. However, sometimes people can get serious complications from head trauma, though not always, and not in this case apparently. But if it was severe, they really should have taken him to a hospital just in case he decompensated (though it doesn’t sound that severe). ---
**Author:** ![JimOfAllTrades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@JimOfAllTrades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JimOfAllTrades)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-true-miracle-i-witnessed/244422/17 "2004-05-10T07:43:01Z")
> [@START](#): > > I am just a normal dude who saw something that was **obviously** some type of supernatural healing. (bolding mine) The thing is, it isn’t obviously a miracle. Even assuming it happened exactly as you say, it isn’t miraculous at all, it’s fairly commonplace. Happens all the time, no prayer required. In addition to raising two of my own kids, I made extra money as young teenager tending my brother’s and sister’s kids. In many years of taking care of lots of kids, I can assure you that sometimes those lumps go down by themselves very quickly, and with no prayer at all. I’ve seen it in person. Scalp wounds can bleed like the devil, swell up to thumb size, and then stop bleeding and the bump is barely noticeable minutes later. Sometimes the bump lasts for a week. It depends on many things. I can’t say it wasn’t a miracle, of course. But if it was, it was a poor one, because I’ve seen the exact same thing more than once without benefit of divine intervention. ---
**Author:** ![iamme99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/57b2e6/32.png) [@iamme99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamme99)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-true-miracle-i-witnessed/244422/18 "2004-05-10T09:41:45Z")
And no one happened to have, say a digital camera at hand to provide a little EVIDENCE of this miracle (or at least to have evidence for the possible law suit)? ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-true-miracle-i-witnessed/244422/19 "2004-05-10T10:09:15Z")
Not a medical doctor but, yes, this is essentially what lumps _do_! Many a clash of heads have I seen playing footy which resulted in cartoon-like bulges forming, only to subside within a few minutes. No miracle here, just personal discovery about how evolution produces such a finely tuned, effective mechanism for coping with impacts. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-true-miracle-i-witnessed/244422/20 "2004-05-10T10:51:06Z")
> [@START](#): > > this little boy knocked the heck out of his head on a table. He had this nasty looking, bloody lump growing on his head and he was screaming and crying and all these women from the church got around him and started praying and I saw that lump go back to normal. I really can’t see what is miraculous in a bump going back to normal. That’s what bumps usually do, and it can be quite quick. It seems roughly as miraculous to me as a cut stopping bleeding. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-true-miracle-i-witnessed/244422.md?page=2)