# One victim, two simultaneous murders. How to prosecute? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 29, 2016, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-victim-two-simultaneous-murders-how-to-prosecute/773384 "2016-11-29T16:24:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-victim-two-simultaneous-murders-how-to-prosecute/773384/41 "2016-12-06T02:04:52Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > That doesn’t seem to be consistent with the penalties set out in the Crimes Act 1958 of Victoria State. > > [Section 3 of the Crimes Act](http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/ca195882/s3.html) says that the punishment for murder is “level 1 imprisonment (life)”. > > [Section 321P of the Crimes Ac](http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/ca195882/s321p.html)t sets out the penalties for attempted offences, and says that for offences carrying a penalty of “level 1 imprisonment (life)”, the penalty for attempting that offence is “Level 2 imprisonment (25 years maximum)”. > > Doesn’t sound to me like Victoria treats murder and attempt murder the same for penalty purposes. Am I missing something? Sure. What you’re missing is that most murderers don’t get life, and that most attempted murderers don’t get minimum. Absolutely a typical attempted murder is going to get less than a typical murder: there are sentencing guidlines as well as legislated penalties. But regarding the OP: you’ll be looking at the long end of the “attempted murder” sentence if your only excuse is that someone else shot him before he died. Anyway, that’s assuming it is a defence in vic.aus I don’t know that it is, I’m just saying that if it is attempted murder, the courts are going to give a proportionate sentence. And in the case under consideration, a proportionate sentence is going to be the same for both perps. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-victim-two-simultaneous-murders-how-to-prosecute/773384/42 "2016-12-06T02:42:24Z")
But now you’re saying different things. In your first post, which is what Inqas responding to, you said that someone charged with attempt murder would get the same penalty as someone charged with murder: > [@Melbourne](#): > > And for this reason, the basic prison sentence given here (vic.aus) would be the same for either crime. Say 15 years for the murder, 15 years for the attempted murder. > > … > > \*(IANAL. I don’t know if they’d give one “attempted murder” in vic.aus. But if they did, he probably wouldn’t get off more lightly because of it) But now you’re saying they wouldn’t get the same sentence: > [@Melbourne](#): > > Absolutely a typical attempted murder is going to get less than a typical murder: there are sentencing guidlines as well as legislated penalties. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-victim-two-simultaneous-murders-how-to-prosecute/773384/43 "2016-12-06T09:40:22Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > The victim was a BASE jumper, and his 'chute was altered so it wouldn’t work. But, he was also shot in his last, soon-to-be-fatal flight by a sniper. So now you’re saying that the situation described in the OP was a typical murder / attempted murder? I disagere. In the situation described in the OP, the two criminals would get proportionate sentences. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-victim-two-simultaneous-murders-how-to-prosecute/773384/44 "2016-12-06T17:20:25Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > So now you’re saying that the situation described in the OP was a typical murder / attempted murder? > > I disagere. In the situation described in the OP, the two criminals would get proportionate sentences. I think you’re crossed up. I am the OP. The situation is roughly analogous to two people, each on one side of a wall who can’t see nor are aware of each other, who simultaneously both shoot a guy that they can both see. One shoots the guy in the head, one shoots him in the aorta. The head shot is possibly immediately fatal, but the aorta shot will definitely be fatal within 15-30 seconds. Which one gets charged with murder, and which with attempted murder? Allow for the fact that it would be possible to argue that, with immediate treatment, the head wound by itself might not be fatal until life support is removed. Each person in this scenario can make a plausible case during trial that the other guy is the Real Killer ™. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-victim-two-simultaneous-murders-how-to-prosecute/773384.md?page=2)