# One way to tell if your coworkers don't like you: they take you up a mountain and leave you there
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-way-to-tell-if-your-coworkers-dont-like-you-they-take-you-up-a-mountain-and-leave-you-there/1006337
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [August 27, 2024, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-way-to-tell-if-your-coworkers-dont-like-you-they-take-you-up-a-mountain-and-leave-you-there/1006337 "2024-08-27T22:44:29Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2024, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-way-to-tell-if-your-coworkers-dont-like-you-they-take-you-up-a-mountain-and-leave-you-there/1006337/21 "2024-08-28T15:33:36Z")
Regarding the story in the OP, the Facebook post by the search and rescue team says, “In what might cause some awkward encounters at the office in the coming days and weeks, one member of their party was left to complete his final summit push alone.”
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### Author:  [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2024, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-way-to-tell-if-your-coworkers-dont-like-you-they-take-you-up-a-mountain-and-leave-you-there/1006337/22 "2024-08-28T15:34:14Z")
“The Coloradan who went up a mountain but came down unemployed.”
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### Author:  [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2024, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-way-to-tell-if-your-coworkers-dont-like-you-they-take-you-up-a-mountain-and-leave-you-there/1006337/23 "2024-08-28T15:51:41Z")
> [@wolfpup](#):
>
> In all seriousness, I suspect that “picking up the trail markers” was in the spirit of cleaning up after yourself
Typically, the trail markers are piles of rocks called “carins”. They aren’t temporary things that a hiking group leaves behind like breadcrumbs. On a hike above treeline, there isn’t necessarily a well-worn path to follow. It’s often just walking across a bare surface. The carins are used to let hikers know the path to follow. But it can be easy to miss them. If this was a novice hiker or he just overlooked one of the carins, it would be easy to go off trail.
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### Author:  [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2024, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-way-to-tell-if-your-coworkers-dont-like-you-they-take-you-up-a-mountain-and-leave-you-there/1006337/24 "2024-08-28T15:55:44Z")
> [@filmore](#):
>
> Typically, the trail markers are piles of rocks called “carins
> [@filmore](#):
>
> carins
> [@filmore](#):
>
> carins
Cairns…
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### Author:  [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2024, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-way-to-tell-if-your-coworkers-dont-like-you-they-take-you-up-a-mountain-and-leave-you-there/1006337/25 "2024-08-28T15:56:06Z")
Ninja’d:
> **[Cairn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairn)**
>
> A cairn is a human-made pile (or stack) of stones raised for a purpose, usually as a marker or as a burial mound. The word cairn comes from the Scottish Gaelic: càrn \[ˈkʰaːrˠn̪ˠ\] (plural càirn \[ˈkʰaːrˠɲ\]).
> Cairns have been and are used for a broad variety of purposes. In prehistory, they were raised as markers, as memorials and as burial monuments (some of which contained chambers).
> In the modern era, cairns are often raised as landmarks, especially to mark the summits of mountains. Cairns ar...
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### Author:  [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2024, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-way-to-tell-if-your-coworkers-dont-like-you-they-take-you-up-a-mountain-and-leave-you-there/1006337/26 "2024-08-28T15:57:43Z")
> [@ftg](#):
>
> Um, nobody _forced_ the guy to continue the climb, right? If you leave the group who is going another (safer) way, whose fault is that?
>
> It’s the guy’s own fault.
They had picked up the trail markers, so he couldn’t tell where the right way was.
According to the article, others of the group were at some points in phone communication with him; so maybe they felt they hadn’t left him. Still a really stupid thing to do, not making sure that it was the last person who removed the trail markers – and ideally a person in the group who knew what they were doing should have been last; though it appears possible that this group didn’t have such a person.
> [@filmore](#):
>
> Typically, the trail markers are piles of rocks called “carins”. They aren’t temporary things that a hiking group leaves behind like breadcrumbs.
The article linked in the OP says that they were picked up by the rest of the group.
So does this one, which gives more detail:
> **[Hiker left behind on mountain by coworkers during office retreat, stranded...](https://www.denverpost.com/2024/08/27/chaffee-county-search-rescue-hiker-coworkers-retreat-injured-mount-shavano/)**
>
> “In what might cause some awkward encounters at the office in the coming days and weeks, one member of their party was left to complete his final summit push alone,” search and rescue o…
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### Author:  [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2024, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-way-to-tell-if-your-coworkers-dont-like-you-they-take-you-up-a-mountain-and-leave-you-there/1006337/27 "2024-08-28T16:00:52Z")
> [@Chefguy](#):
>
> Oh lord: being lost in a cave is one of my nightmare scenarios. Seems to me there was recently someone who ended up dying when he was trapped headfirst in a dead end. ::shudder::
That’d be the Nutty Putty Cave disaster. The Wikipedia page understates the horror of what happened:
> **[Nutty Putty Cave](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutty_Putty_Cave#Fatal_accident_and_closure)**
>
> Nutty Putty Cave is a hydrothermal cave located west of Utah Lake in Utah County, Utah, United States. The cave was formerly popular with amateur and professional cavers alike despite being known for its narrow passageways. It was closed to the public in 2009 following a fatal accident that year. Before that, it was popular among Boy Scout troops and college students.
> The cave, first explored in 1960 by Dale Green and friends, is currently owned by the Utah School and Institutional Trust Lands A...
If you really want to grok the true awfulness of it, there’s this 16-minute documentary:
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-TaF2DbaWw)
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### Author:  [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2024, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-way-to-tell-if-your-coworkers-dont-like-you-they-take-you-up-a-mountain-and-leave-you-there/1006337/28 "2024-08-28T16:31:46Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#):
>
> They carefully counted heads so they wouldn’t forget anyone…
>
> …and drove off without me anyway.
Ah… being McCallistered. \*nods\*
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#):
>
> That article mentions a “buddy check” at one point,
If the buddy system can fail, I don’t know what to believe in.
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### Author:  [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2024, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-way-to-tell-if-your-coworkers-dont-like-you-they-take-you-up-a-mountain-and-leave-you-there/1006337/29 "2024-08-28T16:39:13Z")
Yeah, that’s the one. Cripes, what a horror story.
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### Author:  [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2024, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-way-to-tell-if-your-coworkers-dont-like-you-they-take-you-up-a-mountain-and-leave-you-there/1006337/30 "2024-08-28T16:50:10Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#):
>
> I was once on a tour of Stonehenge with a tourist group out of London. They carefully counted heads so they wouldn’t forget anyone…
>
> …and drove off without me anyway.
We had a tour in the Colosseum and we the last three of the group in line to get in. Our tour guide took off with the rest and went though the second checkpoint that was inside and we were not allowed in since the tour group had already gone through. It was a freaking miracle we found a staff member that was tracking tour entries and got us past the entry point and with our group. Seriously he couldn’t count up to 12 properly?
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### Author:  [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2024, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-way-to-tell-if-your-coworkers-dont-like-you-they-take-you-up-a-mountain-and-leave-you-there/1006337/31 "2024-08-28T17:03:38Z")
> [@Folly](#):
>
> If the buddy system can fail, I don’t know what to believe in.
That’s not a failure of the buddy system, that’s a failure of people to adhere to the tenets of the buddy system. If somebody crashes their motorcycle and suffers a head injury because they weren’t wearing a helmet, that not a failure of the helmet.
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### Author:  [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2024, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-way-to-tell-if-your-coworkers-dont-like-you-they-take-you-up-a-mountain-and-leave-you-there/1006337/32 "2024-08-28T20:04:13Z")
> [@Chefguy](#):
>
> Yeah, that’s the one. Cripes, what a horror story.
I’m mildly claustrophobic and just seeing the Youtube title screen makes me a bit panic’y. No way I will read more or watch the video about it. YIKES!!
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### Author:  [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2024, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-way-to-tell-if-your-coworkers-dont-like-you-they-take-you-up-a-mountain-and-leave-you-there/1006337/33 "2024-08-28T20:08:57Z")
Regarding the new story about the work retreat that left one co-worker behind, why didn’t they do a headcount before heading home?
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2024, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-way-to-tell-if-your-coworkers-dont-like-you-they-take-you-up-a-mountain-and-leave-you-there/1006337/34 "2024-08-28T20:17:26Z")
> [@gnoitall](#):
>
> Maybe a job search is in order.
Maybe a good lawyer is in order…
> [@enipla](#):
>
> This kind of situation is not that unusual. An exhausted group of 12 people leaves one behind.
But rarely do they deliberately pick up the $#@! trail markers also.
> [@enipla](#):
>
> I used to be on Colorado Ground Search and Rescue. People do dumb shit all the time.
**Kudos!** I was just a volunteer ranger- mostly picking up trash, keeping the trails clear, and telling people where the bathrooms were. I did help in a couple lost child searches- one time the kid was only like 100 feet away and hiding!
> [@CalMeacham](#):
>
> Stonehenge is out in the middle of Salisbury Plain. There’s nothing there except tourists and tour buses.
And a cafe, gift shop and sorta museum. Yes, that would be annoying as all fuck, but hardly dangerous.
> [@ftg](#):
>
> I see no reason to blame the group.
The group is entirely at fault.
> [@Saint\_Cad](#):
>
> It was a freaking miracle we found a staff member that was tracking tour entries and got us past the entry point and with our group. Seriously he couldn’t count up to 12 properly?
Yep, but you were in the middle of a major city, other than pickpockets, your danger was slight.
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### Author:  [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2024, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-way-to-tell-if-your-coworkers-dont-like-you-they-take-you-up-a-mountain-and-leave-you-there/1006337/35 "2024-08-28T20:28:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> Yep, but you were in the middle of a major city, other than pickpockets, your danger was slight.
What does that have to do with being very close to not being able to tour the Colosseum?
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2024, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-way-to-tell-if-your-coworkers-dont-like-you-they-take-you-up-a-mountain-and-leave-you-there/1006337/36 "2024-08-28T20:31:43Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#):
>
> What does that have to do with being very close to not being able to tour the Colosseum?
In the case of the OP story, they left their coworker in a _potentially deadly situation._
You were left in an _annoying situation._
See the difference?
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### Author:  [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2024, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-way-to-tell-if-your-coworkers-dont-like-you-they-take-you-up-a-mountain-and-leave-you-there/1006337/37 "2024-08-28T20:36:57Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> **Kudos!** I was just a volunteer ranger- mostly picking up trash, keeping the trails clear, and telling people where the bathrooms were. I did help in a couple lost child searches- one time the kid was only like 100 feet away and hiding!
Good for you. 100 feet can be a LOT. We where the ground arm of Civil Air Patrol. The guys in the airplanes would do visual searches. You would think that a plane crash is easy to spot. It’s not.
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> The group is entirely at fault.
I would say they screwed up. Yes taking the markers down with out a full head count is a bad idea. BUT the 12 people may have been spread out. Very difficult to count. I would not take down markers though before I knew everyone was ahead of me.
Colorado Ground Search and Rescue cut special marks in our boots. If you step in mud it leaves a signature. That way we knew if it was one of ours. Yes this was mostly before any radio communication for the mountains.
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### Author:  [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2024, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-way-to-tell-if-your-coworkers-dont-like-you-they-take-you-up-a-mountain-and-leave-you-there/1006337/38 "2024-08-28T20:44:59Z")
The more detailed story says, “one member of the party was left to complete his final summit push alone.” What do you imagine the dynamics to have been? Did ANYONE attain the summit? Did everyone else decide to turn back short of the summit, but this one guy said, “Darn it, I’m gonna make it if I have to do it alone!”?
The way it is phrased - and I have no info other than the 2 linked stories - it DOESN’T sound as though everyone in the summiting group completed their summit, then blithely headed downhill with a merry, “See ya later!” And nothing suggests he simply slipped aways with people forgetting to count heads/conduct a buddy check. The group - and the climber - seemed to know he was going of on his own.
Like **enipla** says (and he oughta know!) - people make stupid decisions at altitude. But I’m unable to say who was MORE stupid - the guy who wanted to go it alone at 14k’, or the group who - did exactly what?
Was ANYONE in charge? Or was this some BS team building exercise where everything was supposed to be done by consensus? How was the decision made, and by whom, to let any one climber to separate from the group?
They say the “markers” were personal belongings. I’m imagining packs, bottles, pieces of clothing, etc. Wouldn’t you assume the group would pick them up as they descended, rather than saying, “Hey Bill, as you are stumbling down alone, pickup all our shit, would ya?”
Yeah, maybe they were all stupid and partially responsible. But IMO, the lone climber was by far the stupidest and most responsible.
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### Author:  [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2024, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-way-to-tell-if-your-coworkers-dont-like-you-they-take-you-up-a-mountain-and-leave-you-there/1006337/39 "2024-08-28T21:23:28Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#):
>
> Regarding the new story about the work retreat that left one co-worker behind, why didn’t they do a headcount before heading home
Depends on what you mean by “heading home”. They apparently hung around in the parking lot waiting for him, and had some texting back and forth when he had phone access, which he didn’t always.
The problem appears to be that they didn’t think to do the headcount before starting back down the trail; and again before picking up their trail markers.
> [@Dinsdale](#):
>
> They say the “markers” were personal belongings. I’m imagining packs, bottles, pieces of clothing, etc. Wouldn’t you assume the group would pick them up as they descended, rather than saying, “Hey Bill, as you are stumbling down alone, pickup all our shit, would ya?”
They should have all waited at the first marker, or at least enough of them to help each other out and carry things.
I would assume that the point of leaving trail markers was to mark the trail! and it would have to be to mark it on the way back down, as on the way up they’d obviously found the place in order to mark it. I would certainly not assume that trail markers left for that purpose would be picked up while someone behind them still needed to find the trail.
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### Author:  [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2024, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-way-to-tell-if-your-coworkers-dont-like-you-they-take-you-up-a-mountain-and-leave-you-there/1006337/40 "2024-08-28T21:26:01Z")
Considering that one purpose of “work retreats” like that is to help work groups work better together and encourage group cohesion, I’d say this one accomplished exactly the opposite.
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