# One-won split in English accents/dialects? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 30, 2020, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-won-split-in-english-accents-dialects/854759 "2020-05-30T23:48:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-won-split-in-english-accents-dialects/854759/1 "2020-05-30T23:48:45Z")
[This Twitter post](https://twitter.com/TerribleMaps/status/1163223137972097024/photo/1) displays six maps of Great Britain (and portions of Ireland) showing the geographical distribution of six vowel splits/mergers. Five of them I’m familiar with ([pour-poor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-language_vowel_changes_before_historic_/r/#Cure%E2%80%93force_merger), [book-spook](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonological_history_of_English_close_back_vowels#Foot%E2%80%93goose_merger), [spa-spar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhoticity_in_English), [put-but](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonological_history_of_English_close_back_vowels#Foot%E2%80%93strut_split), and [bath-trap](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap%E2%80%93bath_split)) The sixth one, however, I was unfamiliar with. It’s the fourth map in the image and the question is “Do ‘one’ and ‘won’ sound the same?” In my own accent, both words are pronounced as [wʌn]. Apparently in North Wales, the Midlands, and the North they _don’t_ sound the same. I’m having trouble finding more information and examples of this, possibly because of the difficulty of searching for “one” and “won.” Does anyone have more information on this? Examples? Transcriptions? ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-won-split-in-english-accents-dialects/854759/2 "2020-05-31T00:03:22Z")
Based on my experience, I’d say the vowel in “one” is “rounder” in the north of England, more like “woon.” How “won” would be pronounced, I’m not sure. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-won-split-in-english-accents-dialects/854759/3 "2020-05-31T00:17:34Z")
Best I could find > **[English language in Northern England](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language_in_Northern_England)** > > The spoken English language in Northern England has been shaped by the region's history of settlement and migration, and today encompasses a group of related accents and dialects known as Northern England English (or, simply, Northern (English) in the United Kingdom). > The terms 'accent' and 'dialect' are broadly defined terms in the English language, this article strives to comply with these accepted definitions. This article largely focuses on accents. Most current language differences in the... Where I’d normally use /ʌ/, > [@](#): > > [ʊ] > > Northumberland, less rounded: [ʌ̈]; in Scouse, Manchester, South Yorkshire and (to an extent) Teesside \*\*the word one is uniquely pronounced with the vowel [ɒ], and this is also possible for once, among, none, and nothing \*\* Bolding mine. I don’t know anything about the named accents. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-won-split-in-english-accents-dialects/854759/4 "2020-05-31T05:30:22Z")
I’m more interested in “but” and “put”. I don’t believe there is anywhere where those two don’t rhyme. “one” and “won”, on the other hand, I’d say, probably don’t sound the same anywhere. One is pronounced “won”, won is pronounced “wun”. Then again, I’m from the area where the tweet says that’s how I pronounce things. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-won-split-in-english-accents-dialects/854759/5 "2020-05-31T06:55:07Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > I’m more interested in “but” and “put”. I don’t believe there is anywhere where those two don’t rhyme. > > “one” and “won”, on the other hand, I’d say, probably don’t sound the same anywhere. One is pronounced “won”, won is pronounced “wun”. > > Then again, I’m from the area where the tweet says that’s how I pronounce things. Brought up in London (essentially RP-speaker) but I worked for a time in North Staffordshire. To me “but” and “put” are different (the one pronounced as in “up” the other as in “look”) , but in the Potteries I often heard people pronounce them the same (as in “putt” or “butt”). Likewise to me “won” and “one” are the same (as in “sun”), but again in the Potteries I’d hear “one” pronounced as in “on” or “song”. I have the impression it’s much the same across the north Midlands and north from there, but I’m no expert. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-won-split-in-english-accents-dialects/854759/6 "2020-05-31T08:08:36Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > I’m more interested in “but” and “put”. I don’t believe there is anywhere where those two don’t rhyme. I can’t think of anywhere I’m familiar with where those two DO rhyme. Unless you mean “putt” as in golf. ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/34f0e0/32.png) [@Mark\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mark_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-won-split-in-english-accents-dialects/854759/7 "2020-05-31T13:37:34Z")
To me - “one” is pronounced “wun”, and rhymes with “ton” and “sun”. And “won” rhymes with “gone”. My city’s name (in English) is pronounced “Mun-treal” by locals, but “Mon-treal” by outsiders. 🙂 (and the largest city in Ontario is pronounced “Tranna”) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-won-split-in-english-accents-dialects/854759/8 "2020-05-31T13:43:17Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > I’m more interested in “but” and “put”. I don’t believe there is anywhere where those two don’t rhyme. > > “one” and “won”, on the other hand, I’d say, probably don’t sound the same anywhere. One is pronounced “won”, won is pronounced “wun”. > > Then again, I’m from the area where the tweet says that’s how I pronounce things. > [@Aspidistra](#): > > I can’t think of anywhere I’m familiar with where those two DO rhyme. Unless you mean “putt” as in golf. This. “Putt” rhymes with “but”, as does “butt”. Both start like “butter”, “Put” is different, and sounds more like “book”. They are quite different, and I can’t recall every meeting anyone who pronounced them the same. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-won-split-in-english-accents-dialects/854759/9 "2020-05-31T13:49:02Z")
I’ve always heard spa and spar with the same vowel. Very seldom heard an American pronounce put and but with the same vowel. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-won-split-in-english-accents-dialects/854759/10 "2020-05-31T16:15:39Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > I’m more interested in “but” and “put”. I don’t believe there is anywhere where those two don’t rhyme. > [@PatrickLondon](#): > > To me “but” and “put” are different (the one pronounced as in “up” the other as in “look”) > [@puzzlegal](#): > > This. “Putt” rhymes with “but”, as does “butt”. Both start like “butter”, “Put” is different, and sounds more like “book”. The put-but merger seems to me very characteristic of many North Country accents. If you watch shows like _Downton Abbey_ and _Game of Thrones_, you’ll hear Yorkshire accents that have the merger. So, if Blindboyard has that accent, PatrickLondon and Puzzlegal’s explanations aren’t going to help, because Blindboyard pronounces all those vowels identically. I.P.A. would show this— Foot-strut split: [ʊ] and [ʌ] foot [fʊt] put [pʊt] look [lʊk] book [bʊk] strut [strʌt] but [bʌt] up [ʌp] putt [pʌt] butter[bʌtɚ] Foot-strut merger: all [ʊ] foot [fʊt] put [pʊt] look [lʊk] book [bʊk] strut [strʊt] but [bʊt] up [ʊp] putt [pʊt] butter[bʊtə] > [@TonySinclair](#): > > I’ve always heard spa and spar with the same vowel. Very seldom heard an American pronounce put and but with the same vowel. I suspect that the chart isn’t really showing a vowel split issue; rather, it’s a rhoticism issue. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-won-split-in-english-accents-dialects/854759/11 "2020-05-31T16:22:32Z")
Many Scottish accents have the [full-fool merger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-language_vowel_changes_before_historic_/l/#Full%E2%80%93fool_merger), through which the /ʊ/ phoneme is completely eliminated, so all these words have the same /u/ vowel: pull pool full fool book boot cook cool good goon look loot ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-won-split-in-english-accents-dialects/854759/12 "2020-05-31T16:38:26Z")
If you look around on the web, you can find several reports of children who were confused while watching Disney’s “Brave” : “Why does the princess want to change her _feet_” (Merida was saying “fate” in her Scottish accent) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-won-split-in-english-accents-dialects/854759/13 "2020-05-31T17:13:48Z")
Looking at Wiktionary’s pronunciations, “one” can be /wʌn/, /wɒn/ (UK), /wan/ (Australian), [wɐn] (RP), or [wän] (Australian). For “won”, I just see the /wʌn/ pronunciation listed. There is the note: “Homophone: one (some dialects only)” [Cite for “one.”](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/one#Pronunciation) [Cite for “won.”](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/won#Pronunciation) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-won-split-in-english-accents-dialects/854759/14 "2020-05-31T17:27:33Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Looking at Wiktionary’s pronunciations, “one” can be /wʌn/, /wɒn/ (UK), /wan/ (Australian), [wɐn] (RP), or [wän] (Australian). For “won”, I just see the /wʌn/ pronunciation listed. There is the note: “Homophone: one (some dialects only)” > > [Cite for “one.”](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/one#Pronunciation) > [Cite for “won.”](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/won#Pronunciation) That seems to be the opposite of what Mark Finn said? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-won-split-in-english-accents-dialects/854759/15 "2020-05-31T18:14:10Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > That seems to be the opposite of what Mark Finn said? It does, yes. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-won-split-in-english-accents-dialects/854759/16 "2020-05-31T19:02:13Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > I’m more interested in “but” and “put”. I don’t believe there is anywhere where those two don’t rhyme. They certainly do not rhyme in Canada or any part of the USA I have been to. On t his side of the pond, “But” and “Putt,” in the sense of a short range shot in golf, rhyme. They don’t rhyme with “put.”