# Online pedophiles & their expectations of success when setting up meetings with kids **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 8, 2006, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/online-pedophiles-their-expectations-of-success-when-setting-up-meetings-with-kids/355897 "2006-05-08T15:34:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/online-pedophiles-their-expectations-of-success-when-setting-up-meetings-with-kids/355897/141 "2006-05-22T18:22:09Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Excerpted from the Followup Forum rules: And is that guidance directed only towards the member that had the incriminating chat with the pedophile, or is it directed towards anyone reading the forum? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/online-pedophiles-their-expectations-of-success-when-setting-up-meetings-with-kids/355897/142 "2006-05-22T18:30:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And is that guidance directed only towards the member that had the incriminating chat with the pedophile, or is it directed towards anyone reading the forum? Anyone. The rules specifically state to not post “unconfirmed” phone numbers–doing so is grounds for immediate banning–so they must be aware that it’s not just those involved in the chat who are calling. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/online-pedophiles-their-expectations-of-success-when-setting-up-meetings-with-kids/355897/143 "2006-05-22T18:45:29Z")
I don’t care who’s doing the calling. If you witness a crime, you call the police. Not the criminal’s neighbors. That’s harassment, whether it fits the legal definition or not. It’s wrong. There is no check these individuals, like there is with a government agency. Suppose the number is only posted for the benefit of the person who had the chat? So what’s to stop the rest of the members from doing whatever the hell they like with it? ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/online-pedophiles-their-expectations-of-success-when-setting-up-meetings-with-kids/355897/144 "2006-05-22T19:04:37Z")
> [@Garfield226](#): > > It seems to me that the main tactic this group uses that people in this thread are taking offense to is the harassment they’re causing their “busts.” This isn’t evident in the logs and descriptions. It IS evident in their forums. > I don’t have any current, direct evidence as I don’t recall my login to that board and I honestly have no interest in reading it again. If it’s different now, that’s great and I withdraw my criticism. IIRC the only people who contact the suspected perv, law enforcement, or the press is the administration of the board. Confirmed family, friends, neighbors, employers, etc are hit by the followup team. The followup team does not kick in until the admins open it up, so the PJ admins are the one calling the hits, not just random board members. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/online-pedophiles-their-expectations-of-success-when-setting-up-meetings-with-kids/355897/145 "2006-05-22T19:08:46Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > It’s wrong. There is no check these individuals, like there is with a government agency. Suppose the number is only posted for the benefit of the person who had the chat? So what’s to stop the rest of the members from doing whatever the hell they like with it? PJ can never send someone to jail, the court system still handles that. PJ seems pretty heavily moderated, and they are hyperaware of their legal grey areas. They lock down threads and edit posts pretty quickly. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/online-pedophiles-their-expectations-of-success-when-setting-up-meetings-with-kids/355897/146 "2006-05-22T19:16:14Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > PJ can never send someone to jail, the court system still handles that. PJ seems pretty heavily moderated, and they are hyperaware of their legal grey areas. They lock down threads and edit posts pretty quickly. But that’s by their choice. There’s no commitment to do that aside from their assurances. And of course they can’t send someone to jail. That’s why they need to contact the proper authorities, and not contact other people’s bosses, friends family or neighbors. ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/online-pedophiles-their-expectations-of-success-when-setting-up-meetings-with-kids/355897/147 "2006-05-22T19:48:45Z")
Here are quotes from their [FAQ.](http://www.perverted-justice.com/index.php?pg=faq) > [@](#): > > Have you ever taken someone’s name off the list? If so, why? > A. We do work with posted individuals and treat them kindly if they can provide proof of counseling for their problem. We don’t just expose and condemn, we do try to work with people when they seem genuine about wanting help for their problem. The unfortunate reality is that few of these people will admit their faults to themselves and get counseling. That is how ingrained their sexual obsession problems are. Return to top Very evasive and shady. It doesn’t answer the question, a very simple one. Clearly they do not want to say if they have ever made an error and they do not feel the need to address the question of what they would do if they made an error. If they have never made a false accusation, (or covered up for a perp who does something for PJ) why will they not answer this question? > [@](#): > > How can I get you to take my information down? > A. Give us a damn good reason. As I related above, it is rare. Give us a damn good reason. And it better be damn good. Otherwise, we won’t even entertain the thought. Basically if you’re ashamed, if you know you did something wrong, I suggest writing a “Right of Reply” to us to be posted. These “Rights of Reply” are given to you for you to address our community and explain yourself. A good ROR in addition to counseling sessions will cause you to be treated far better by site readers than trying to duck your head and ignore your problems. It’s obvious that if they make a mistake they do not care. The question is not of whether the person should be on the site, only of what he will do to make PJ happy. They say a good “ROR” will gain a person better treatment. If they are simply informing communities, nor harassing people, then this would not be relevant. The person would not be worried about his “treatment” from site readers. Either they are harassing people, or they are offering to NEGLECT to tell a community and the police about a predator if the predator does what “Peej” wants. This is a clear statement that they are after their own power rather than convicting criminals in a court of law or protecting others from criminals. VERY CLEAR STATEMENT. The person has to do what PJ says or they will be subject to “treatment” by PJ site readers. This is vigilantism, harrassment and extortion. They claim their logs are infallible because they have a proxy server in another state. They don’t explain if this server is monitored by any third parties or how anyone is supposed to know that what’s on the server is what’s on the forums. They claim they make phone calls to verify. However, apparently they don’t record them yet: > [@](#): > > As time goes on, we have a goal of having each phone verification recorded and posted for anyone to listen to. Keep checking back as we implement this future feature. Return to top And they don’t explain how they connect a phone number to the rest of a person’s identity. > [@](#): > > I know that I’m sick and I will need help to overcome this. Where can I get the help I need without being condemned or arrested? > A. Hey, we’re not heartless. We want people to go get help. If you’re an individual with thoughts and impulses to want to engage in some of the acts that the people profiled are trying to engage in, or you are one of those people, we suggest you get some counseling. If you do end up getting counseling and are a mild case, contact us and we may be able to work something out provided that you get your counselor to release information about you to us. Return to top So maybe if you satisfy them they won’t put you up, and they won’t have you condemned or arrested. Is is not wrong or illegal for them to be making arrangements with criminals to have their crimes hushed up so they aren’t arrested? Can I tell a criminal I will not report him to the police if he does me a favor? PJ confirms they used to have a rule against contacting the police. [Cite.](http://www.perverted-justice.com/?con=jaydan0033) I think someone asked about this at some point. > [@](#): > > Site readers may remember June of 2004 being our first conviction and our switch from “no first contact with police” to a program of “cold-calling” around that time due to our first conviction. Previous attempts at cold-calling resulted in skeptical LE questioning whether our stuff could be used in a court of law… after our first conviction, that changed. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/online-pedophiles-their-expectations-of-success-when-setting-up-meetings-with-kids/355897/148 "2006-05-22T21:35:51Z")
> [@riker1384](#): > > And they don’t explain how they connect a phone number to the rest of a person’s identity. One thing they do is a reverse-phone lookup, then call that number to see who answers. Really. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/online-pedophiles-their-expectations-of-success-when-setting-up-meetings-with-kids/355897/149 "2006-05-22T22:19:17Z")
**Lute Skywatcher** These days, Pravda is a tabloid. I tend to disbelieve anything they print unless it is confirmed by another source. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/online-pedophiles-their-expectations-of-success-when-setting-up-meetings-with-kids/355897/150 "2006-05-22T22:37:34Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > **Lute Skywatcher** These days, Pravda is a tabloid. I tend to disbelieve anything they print unless it is confirmed by another source. In this case, confirmation is easy. Just register on the PJ forums. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/online-pedophiles-their-expectations-of-success-when-setting-up-meetings-with-kids/355897/151 "2006-05-22T22:52:51Z")
There have been several cases here , of seriously sick pedophiles trying to arrange trysts with what they thought were children. One such creep was a state police sergeant-Sgt. Brian O’Hare-he thought that he was going to meet a 14 year old boy! Now, in such a case, we have to assume: -as a law enforcement officer, O’Hare knew what he was doing was WRONG -Sgt. O’Hare entered into a conversation VOLUNTARILY -Sgt. O’Hare has no defense-his actions are repugnant to any decent human being But of course, he is innocent until a court finds him guilty. I have no sympathy for people like this. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/online-pedophiles-their-expectations-of-success-when-setting-up-meetings-with-kids/355897/152 "2006-05-25T13:10:51Z")
I haven’t followed this thread since mid-page 2, but I remember people picking on Perverted-Justice for arranging stings without engaging local law enforcement. I haven’t read enough about what PJ nor their detractors do or don’t do right, and I have no opinion either way. However, I did notice this in today’s [Newsay](http://www.newsday.com/news/local/newyork/am-kid0525,0,7137606.story?coll=ny-nycnews-headlines): > [@](#): > > Using information provided by a private watchdog group called Perverted Justice, prosecutors in Brooklyn have charged a 37-year-old Farmingville man with the attempted rape of a person he thought was a 12-year-old girl, officials said. > . > . > . > Under the supervision of investigators with the Brooklyn district attorney’s office, the informant told Nieves to park his car at the corner of Boerum Place and Atlantic Avenue, not far from the prosecutors’ office. Nieves was then told to walk to a particular building in the area, the complaint said. Seems that PJ will sometimes work with the proper authorities and not just Dateline. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/online-pedophiles-their-expectations-of-success-when-setting-up-meetings-with-kids/355897/153 "2006-05-25T21:22:48Z")
I’ve been poking around their forums a bit. Someone called Eve (no relation to the Doper, I hope) asks if flyers have been posted in the neighborhood of an alleged pervert in Ashburn, VA, then offers to “help”. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/online-pedophiles-their-expectations-of-success-when-setting-up-meetings-with-kids/355897/154 "2006-05-26T02:08:00Z")
I walked into the police station here in my quaint little town. A few blocks away, a Level 2 Sex Offender is living. With his girlfriend. And her teenage daughter. :rolleyes: His crime? He kidnapped a girl the same age as his girlfriend’s daughter. He locked her in the closet of a house under renovation. He kept her there for a month, raping her over and over again, starving her for days on end. She was found by workmen who showed up one day. There is no reason to believe he would have let her go after a month. He did jail time, and now lives nearby. All of these facts were published in the local paper, along with his name and photograph. Having said that, the police made it very clear that posting handbills with his likeness or going door to door to show is face to the neighborhood constituted a violation of his civil rights and would be prosecuted. I fail to understand how a newspaper can publish the pertinent info and disseminate it ( in one days’ printing ) to hundreds of thousands of readers and yet posting handbills is against the law. So, if this Eve in Ashburn, VA wants to put up signs, she might want to talk to her local police first. She is likely buying herself an arrest. Cartooniverse ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/online-pedophiles-their-expectations-of-success-when-setting-up-meetings-with-kids/355897/155 "2006-05-26T12:54:02Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > I haven’t followed this thread since mid-page 2, but I remember people picking on Perverted-Justice for arranging stings without engaging local law enforcement. I haven’t read enough about what PJ nor their detractors do or don’t do right, and I have no opinion either way. However, I did notice this in today’s [Newsay](http://www.newsday.com/news/local/newyork/am-kid0525,0,7137606.story?coll=ny-nycnews-headlines): > > Seems that PJ will sometimes work with the proper authorities and not just Dateline. The operative portion being: > [@](#): > > Under the supervision of investigators with the Brooklyn district attorney’s office, I have no problem with a group that wants to help the police. I have a problem with a group that identifies pedophiles and then does not contact the police. Or a group that harasses someone they identify as a pedophile. If they have a valid reason to think this person is dangerous, they should call the cops. If not, they shouldn’t go around harassing them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/online-pedophiles-their-expectations-of-success-when-setting-up-meetings-with-kids/355897.md?page=7)