# Only 12 time-outs today, SDMD. Well done. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2007, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-12-time-outs-today-sdmd-well-done/414827 "2007-08-08T05:25:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2007, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-12-time-outs-today-sdmd-well-done/414827/121 "2007-08-12T22:26:00Z")
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett] So when do you turn 13? [/QUOTE] Trolling for little boys again? This isn’t MySpace, dude. ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2007, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-12-time-outs-today-sdmd-well-done/414827/122 "2007-08-12T22:28:18Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Trolling for little boys again? This isn’t MySpace, dude. [/QUOTE] Still waiting for that explanation of how Internet works. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2007, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-12-time-outs-today-sdmd-well-done/414827/123 "2007-08-12T22:30:22Z")
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett] Still waiting for that explanation of how Internet works. [/QUOTE] Haven’t you heard? It’s all tubes, man. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2007, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-12-time-outs-today-sdmd-well-done/414827/124 "2007-08-12T22:32:51Z")
grumble, grumble\* I know this is the Pit, and flaming is tolerated here where it isn’t in the other forums, but do we really need another dick-measuring contest here, that the rest of us don’t really give a rat’s ass about as much as why the boards time out? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2007, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-12-time-outs-today-sdmd-well-done/414827/125 "2007-08-12T23:27:22Z")
Dudes, can’t we all just get along? Everyone knows that the reason some people time out and others don’t is because you haven’t done proper obeisance to the All-powerful, All-knowing, Mighty Pink Unicorn. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![ReuvenB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@ReuvenB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ReuvenB)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-12-time-outs-today-sdmd-well-done/414827/126 "2007-08-13T00:34:55Z")
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett] You seem like you’re genuinely asking, so I’ll try to genuinely answer. I’ve seen databases that are so poorly organized that they’ll have several tables just for user accounts. Depending on how those tables are organized (could be by registration date), a good number of users could be affected while the rest are not. Thing that can cause this are table locks (bad code opens tables exclusively for modification, which in turn, locks them for other things to make changes to it). I’m guessing that this database is a total mess and things like this are done. For example: tblUsersOriginal (user accounts up to 1/1/2003) tblUsersNew (user accounts from 1/2/2003 - 1/1/2007) tblUsersNewer (users accounts from 1/2/2007 - present). MySQL has funny limitations that may have forced the database admin here to do some quick bandaid work, I don’t know. But doing things like this is bad. So if process A has the third table here locked, the database could be unavailable to that group users, since they are logged into that table (which needs to be updated to render the page). Is this making sense? [/QUOTE] Why would one have to organize the user tables like this? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-12-time-outs-today-sdmd-well-done/414827/127 "2007-08-13T00:39:43Z")
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett] This is fucking garbage. Guess what company is likely going to be at least $15 poorer next year? [/QUOTE] But they’ll be richer in so many other ways. ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-12-time-outs-today-sdmd-well-done/414827/128 "2007-08-13T02:47:11Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] But they’ll be richer in so many other ways. [/QUOTE] Zzzzziiiiiiing! There’s Miller with his predictable slick-as-fuck one-liner! ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-12-time-outs-today-sdmd-well-done/414827/129 "2007-08-13T02:48:44Z")
[QUOTE=featherlou] All-powerful, All-knowing, Mighty Pink Unicorn [/QUOTE] I thought you were talking about Miller until you got to the Unicorn part. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-12-time-outs-today-sdmd-well-done/414827/130 "2007-08-13T17:28:53Z")
I have read and even OPed threads like this, and it’s always the same. A poster will complain about the numerous timeouts and wonder why every other site they visit doesn’t timeout, then someone will come in and say “bollocks, I never have timeouts, it’s your problem”, and then a pissing match ensues. What I am beginning to think is that it’s a combination of factors…firstly, the administration of this board, technical and financial, is puposfully withheld from the customers who pay for it, like the poor widdle _Reader_ is the fucking Bilderberg Group or something, so nobody here really has enough data to go on. Secondly, there may very well be some weak link in the chain between some ISPs and the poor widdle _Reader_’s servers, but how to identify those weak links may be a pretty daunting task; I don’t know. Perhaps someone more technically savvy than I would know which questions to ask when someone has timeouts, to troubleshoot the problem, like who’s your ISP, what’s your location, what time was it when you timed out, etc. I think that if we were to put our heads together and try to gather as much info as possible, we would end up in the same cul-de-sac that is the Politburo of the poor widdle _Reader_. ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-12-time-outs-today-sdmd-well-done/414827/131 "2007-08-13T18:07:07Z")
You can use [WinMTR](http://winmtr.sourceforge.net/) to trace the route from your computer to the boards, it will also give you the time it takes for a message to get there. This will tell you if it is timing out between you and the boards. Enter [boards.straightdope.com](http://boards.straightdope.com) as the host and let it run. The results for me as I type this are :- ```auto |------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | WinMTR statistics | | Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last | |------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------| | My computer - 0 | 205 | 205 | 0 | 6 | 188 | 0 | | c7304.hath.eurisp.net - 1 | 205 | 203 | 46 | 66 | 141 | 63 | | gw.hath.eurisp.net - 1 | 205 | 203 | 46 | 71 | 234 | 78 | | 212.248.197.5 - 2 | 204 | 200 | 47 | 73 | 219 | 78 | | 212.248.197.1 - 1 | 204 | 203 | 46 | 75 | 281 | 78 | | 212.187.136.25 - 2 | 204 | 201 | 46 | 71 | 281 | 79 | | ae-4-4.ebr1.London1.Level3.net - 2 | 204 | 201 | 62 | 78 | 156 | 109 | | ae-12-51.car2.London1.Level3.net - 1 | 204 | 203 | 62 | 89 | 406 | 78 | | bcr1-ge-6-1-0.londonlnx.savvis.net - 2 | 204 | 201 | 62 | 79 | 297 | 94 | | bcs1-so-1-1-0.Londonlnx.savvis.net - 1 | 204 | 203 | 62 | 77 | 156 | 78 | | bcs1-as0-0.Londonlnx.savvis.net - 1 | 204 | 203 | 62 | 124 | 188 | 93 | | cr1-pos-0-8-0-0.NewYork.savvis.net - 1 | 204 | 202 | 156 | 167 | 453 | 172 | | dcr1-so-1-2-0.Chicago.savvis.net - 2 | 204 | 201 | 156 | 172 | 422 | 172 | | ber2-pos-1-0-0.Chicago.savvis.net - 2 | 204 | 201 | 156 | 167 | 359 | 172 | | ber1-vlan-241.chicagoequinix.savvis.net - 2 | 204 | 201 | 156 | 170 | 547 | 172 | | bpr2-ge-7-0-0.ChicagoEquinix.savvis.net - 2 | 204 | 201 | 156 | 171 | 454 | 172 | | 208.174.225.202 - 2 | 204 | 200 | 156 | 173 | 266 | 187 | | boards.straightdope.com - 2 | 204 | 200 | 156 | 162 | 188 | 156 | | ________________________________________________|______ | ______|______ | ______|______ | ______ | WinMTR - 0.8. Copyleft @2000-2002 Vasile Laurentiu Stanimir ( stanimir@cr.nivis.com ) ``` Have fun! ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-12-time-outs-today-sdmd-well-done/414827/132 "2007-08-13T18:28:27Z")
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett] tblUsersOriginal (user accounts up to 1/1/2003) tblUsersNew (user accounts from 1/2/2003 - 1/1/2007) tblUsersNewer (users accounts from 1/2/2007 - present). [/QUOTE] There is no custom table structure for the SDMB, from what I understand; it’s mostly stock vBulletin. There should be just one user table, called _user_. It contains about 50 to 60 fields such as: userid usergroupid username password email homepage usertitle customtitle joindate daysprune lastvisit lastactivity … and more. I’ll [snip] here, since vBulletin isn’t open source, even though it’s visible code. ---
**Author:** ![Jake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-12-time-outs-today-sdmd-well-done/414827/133 "2007-08-13T21:00:33Z")
[QUOTE=featherlou] Dudes, can’t we all just get along? Everyone knows that the reason some people time out and others don’t is because you haven’t done proper obeisance to the All-powerful, All-knowing, Mighty Pink Unicorn. Duh. [/QUOTE] Let us not forget the omnipotent “Flying Spaghetti Monster” who can kick the Unicorns ass in a New York minute. And then serve dinner. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-12-time-outs-today-sdmd-well-done/414827/134 "2007-08-13T21:16:40Z")
Bottom line: we are paying for a service that is far inferior to what everyone else gets for free. The DBA is either hideously over-worked or completely incompetent (Sorry, **Jerry** ). As someone with a degree in Networking, a CCNA, and experience with PHP and MySQL, I can say that **Dudley** is way more knowledgeable than just about anyone else in this thread. As far as the technically clueless posters go, I know your intentions are good and I’ve been here as long as you, but the fact remains that the performance here isn’t (and has never been) even close to other (free) boards with far more traffic. Over the years, I’ve visited this board on a 56k connection from PA, ditto from LA, a cable connection from LA, a DSL connection from LA, a T1 from LA, and, back to PA, another DSL connection, another cable connection, and anther T1 from a State building. I’ve had the **same damned problems** on every one of those connections, but not on any other site. How do you explain that? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-12-time-outs-today-sdmd-well-done/414827/135 "2007-08-13T21:20:36Z")
[QUOTE=neutron star] I’ve had the **same damned problems** on every one of those connections, but not on any other site. How do you explain that? [/QUOTE] I didn’t want to tell you, but there’s a subset of “really cool posters” that **never** get timed out. and if you’re getting timed out, well… FWIW: I get timed out on several other sites as well as this one (which just goes to show you that I’m not one of the ‘really cool posters’ alluded to above). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-12-time-outs-today-sdmd-well-done/414827/136 "2007-08-13T21:23:25Z")
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett] Zzzzziiiiiiing! There’s Miller with his predictable slick-as-fuck one-liner! [/QUOTE] Hey, at least you managed to use this retort in response to an actual one-liner for a change! Congratulations on learning to count! ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-12-time-outs-today-sdmd-well-done/414827/137 "2007-08-13T21:36:43Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] Hey, at least you managed to use this retort in response to an actual one-liner for a change! Congratulations on learning to count! [/QUOTE] You’ve always been one of my favorite posters, **Miller** , but when it comes to the board’s performance, **Dudley** is 100% right. Really, technophobically defending the actions of the people who operate this board is a waste of time. They either don’t know what the fuck they’re doing, or they don’t care. Period. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-12-time-outs-today-sdmd-well-done/414827/138 "2007-08-13T21:38:45Z")
[QUOTE=wring] FWIW: I get timed out on several other sites as well as this one [/QUOTE] Sure. So do I. Just not at some place that I pay money for, and not over a period of seven fucking years on a site that refuses to upgrade their software, you know? ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-12-time-outs-today-sdmd-well-done/414827/139 "2007-08-13T21:46:04Z")
[QUOTE=XWalrus2] Why would one have to organize the user tables like this? [/QUOTE] I’m guessing that if you have a table with say 2,000,000 records, on poor hardware, it’d probably be a dog. A quick remedy would be create a new table and split them up. So, table A would have 1,000,000 records and table B would have 1,000,000. Reading from and writing to table A would theoretically take half the time as it would before it split. You can write queries that will select, update, insert or delete records based on each table, which cuts down on the performance overhead vastly. Keep in mind, MySQL is junk for large scale applications, unless it is used in conjunction with very cleverly written code. I would say that based on the number of posts and user accounts on this board, the database structure used here has bandaids on its bandaids mainly because the code is vBulletin and really the only thing than can be done in manipulating the database structure to increase performance. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-12-time-outs-today-sdmd-well-done/414827/140 "2007-08-13T23:09:44Z")
[QUOTE=neutron star] You’ve always been one of my favorite posters, **Miller** , but when it comes to the board’s performance, **Dudley** is 100% right. Really, technophobically defending the actions of the people who operate this board is a waste of time. They either don’t know what the fuck they’re doing, or they don’t care. Period. [/QUOTE] Who’s defending the operation of the board? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-12-time-outs-today-sdmd-well-done/414827.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-12-time-outs-today-sdmd-well-done/414827.md?page=8)