Only 75 years until the end of the world...SDMB, the world NEEDS you!!

[Mangetout]

@XT

The show that sparked this thread posited that humanity would build a large (VERY large) cylindrical rotating ship powered by an Orion drive (built in orbit), and that we’d search for and find near by (less than 5 light years distant) stars with the most likely possibility of habitable planets and head there. They figured they could take perhaps 250,000 people in total on such a ship. If you haven’t seen the show, it was entertaining if nothing else…especially the pretty obvious ‘twist’ with the rival space ship.

Myself, I’d think that a better plan would be to hunt out good sized asteroids and use them as habitats. They would already have water and materials on them, as well as at least trace gravity. Maybe figure out a way to tether two large ones together for spin, and set up an Orion drive on the whole thing, perhaps with a solar sail as well for in-system travel. With humanity on the line (really, all life on this planet), I’m fairly sure we could figure out something to get at least a breeding population off the planet.

75 years (well, probably more like 60*) to get any of those ideas up and running is absurdly short. Don’t forget, this isn’t just a case of building something big - it’s building something big and complex, that has to continue functioning for thousands of years with almost no external resources - and trying to run this project in a world that is in a state of panicked collapse.
*75 years, minus 5 years of denial and argument, minus 5 years of political bullshit and war, and allowing at least 5 years between launch and when the death star arrives.

[XT]

@Bryan_Ekers

Me and 500 supermodels will suffice.

Honestly, I don’t think supermodels would be ideal for breeding purposes, but that’s just me. 500 also seems excessive, though you might be a lot younger than I am.

[XT]

@Mangetout

75 years (well, probably more like 60*) to get any of those ideas up and running is absurdly short. Don’t forget, this isn’t just a case of building something big - it’s building something big and complex, that has to continue functioning for thousands of years with almost no external resources - and trying to run this project in a world that is in a state of panicked collapse.
*75 years, minus 5 years of denial and argument, minus 5 years of political bullshit and war, and allowing at least 5 years between launch and when the death star arrives.

I don’t think that 75 years it absurdly short, though obviously we wouldn’t be able to let any grass grow under our collective feet. And the ship wouldn’t have to last for thousands of years, not if the theory about potential speed from an Orion drive are in the ball park. You should be able to get to something like 2-5% of the speed of light with such a drive. Granted, it’s going to take a while to get there, and then you have to slow back down afterwards, but I’d say you are looking at a trip of maybe 100-200 years, not thousands.

You are right about the political aspects and the panic that would be setting in…99% of humanity would be being left behind to die after all, and that’s going to make for some very, VERY unhappy people. I don’t know if that aspect could be overcome and if the nations of the world could be brought together to work for a common goal of getting a few people from each nation and genetic type off the planet, along with saving as many species as possible (maybe in embryo or seed format).

[smiling_bandit]

@XT

Myself, I’d think that a better plan would be to hunt out good sized asteroids and use them as habitats. They would already have water and materials on them, as well as at least trace gravity. Maybe figure out a way to tether two large ones together for spin, and set up an Orion drive on the whole thing, perhaps with a solar sail as well for in-system travel. With humanity on the line (really, all life on this planet), I’m fairly sure we could figure out something to get at least a breeding population off the planet.

No chance whatsoever. Space is about as hostile an environment as you can get, and we’ve no methods at all for surviving in its depths. Orion drives get you off the planet. They do not propel you through space. This is because fissibkle materials isn’t that easy to come by. But more to the point, your spacecraft has to be able to survive indefinitely from whatever it happens to find.

It must be able to survive even if there are no habitable planets anywhere in the universe, or if would take a billion years to terraform one. It must have all the machinery and facilities to replace anything and everything on the ship. It must be able to recover from damage reliably and in a reasonable length of time. Simlpy put, this is beyond engineering: this is trying to engineer for challenges where we don’t even know the real problems yet.

Second, things like culture are going to be a “possibly but unlikely” optional extra. It must have a totalitarian economy. It must have a totalitarian government, and likely an immediate death penalty for disobedience. Everyone must work and obey, because the slightest misstep could spell doom. Children will not choose their profession: they will be assigned one. Because, basically, there’s no alternative: if everyone doesn’t do exactly what they are ordered, everyone dies. The economy is geared for one thing and one thing only: the ship’s survival. You get no choice in profession because society needs certain things and has no margins for error.

[iiandyiiii]

I have stumbled upon, in my mind, a wonderful solution to the OP (can be done in parallel with any other idea):

Seedships. The big problem with spaceships is all the mass for people and life-support- food, air, water, recycling, etc. So we eliminate that. Load up automated ships with genetic material (and life forms that can be frozen or otherwise suspended, like seeds, bacteria, etc)- and send them out on their way towards various star systems that may have earthlike planets (or on a long arcing trip that takes it back to Earth after the danger has passed). Then the robot ships land on a world with some water and whatnot, and start an accelerated “evolution” program- first seed the soil and atmosphere with microorganisms. After a few years (or dozens or hundreds or more- there’s no hurry), when the soil and atmosphere is at a certain level, the robots start planting the plant seeds, along with fertilizing the bee and ant eggs they’ve frozen (this will require some artificial egg/womb technology), and work their way up- when the conditions are ok for the next “level” of seeding, create and release those animals (fish into the ocean, insects/amphibians/reptiles on land, etc). Sort of simulate the biological history of Earth, thus creating a new ecosystem in the time frame of perhaps hundreds or thousands of years- as weird and different as it undoubtedly will be. The robots can stop at the point that the baby animals need a mama to take care of them (so no birds and mammals, probably). And the final step will be fertilizing the stored human eggs with the stored human sperm, and having soft, furry robot mamas (with projected human faces) feed the babies formula, talk baby talk, and play them videos from the now extinct human culture to teach them language and human interaction.

And so after the thousands of years or however long, the first humans in millenia will awaken to a new (and undoubtedly much stranger) Earth, to frolic and build a new civilization, and experience new and weird psychoses brought about by having been raised by furry robot mamas.

So now bask in the sci-fi awesomeness of the plan that I spent about an hour thinking up last night.

[Mangetout]

@XT

I don’t think that 75 years it absurdly short, though obviously we wouldn’t be able to let any grass grow under our collective feet. And the ship wouldn’t have to last for thousands of years, not if the theory about potential speed from an Orion drive are in the ball park. You should be able to get to something like 2-5% of the speed of light with such a drive. Granted, it’s going to take a while to get there, and then you have to slow back down afterwards, but I’d say you are looking at a trip of maybe 100-200 years, not thousands.

Those figures sound like the ones calculated for a minimal-size, no-slowdown Orion vessel - and on the assumption that the destination is Alpha Centauri. Not even the same proposition as one that would deliver a quarter of a million people safely to a new world. Just lifting the fuel for that one into orbit would probably take more than 75 years.

You are right about the political aspects and the panic that would be setting in…99% of humanity would be being left behind to die after all, and that’s going to make for some very, VERY unhappy people. I don’t know if that aspect could be overcome and if the nations of the world could be brought together to work for a common goal of getting a few people from each nation and genetic type off the planet, along with saving as many species as possible (maybe in embryo or seed format).

Short of aliens arriving and pulling a Day The Earth Stood Still scenario, humanity wouldn’t have a hope of organising itself to do this - because not everyone would agree on the best course of action, and would fight to try to bring about their own version.

[Mangetout]

@iiandyiiii

I have stumbled upon, in my mind, a wonderful solution to the OP (can be done in parallel with any other idea):

Seedships. The big problem with spaceships is all the mass for people and life-support- food, air, water, recycling, etc. So we eliminate that. Load up automated ships with genetic material (and life forms that can be frozen or otherwise suspended, like seeds, bacteria, etc)- and send them out on their way towards various star systems that may have earthlike planets (or on a long arcing trip that takes it back to Earth after the danger has passed). Then the robot ships land on a world with some water and whatnot, and start an accelerated “evolution” program- first seed the soil and atmosphere with microorganisms. After a few years (or dozens or hundreds or more- there’s no hurry), when the soil and atmosphere is at a certain level, the robots start planting the plant seeds, along with fertilizing the bee and ant eggs they’ve frozen (this will require some artificial egg/womb technology), and work their way up- when the conditions are ok for the next “level” of seeding, create and release those animals (fish into the ocean, insects/amphibians/reptiles on land, etc). Sort of simulate the biological history of Earth, thus creating a new ecosystem in the time frame of perhaps hundreds or thousands of years- as weird and different as it undoubtedly will be. The robots can stop at the point that the baby animals need a mama to take care of them (so no birds and mammals, probably). And the final step will be fertilizing the stored human eggs with the stored human sperm, and having soft, furry robot mamas (with projected human faces) feed the babies formula, talk baby talk, and play them videos from the now extinct human culture to teach them language and human interaction.

And so after the thousands of years or however long, the first humans in millenia will awaken to a new (and undoubtedly much stranger) Earth, to frolic and build a new civilization, and experience new and weird psychoses brought about by having been raised by furry robot mamas.

So now bask in the sci-fi awesomeness of the plan that I spent about an hour thinking up last night.

In all honesty, I think this has more(although in total, still very little) chance of working than a generation ship . Taking living humans along for the journey is an enormous burden - and it’s not as if anyone who trod this Earth would survive long enough to step off at the other end anyway.