# "Only the little people pay their bills!" (Bill, Hillary stiff their lawyers) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 13, 2002, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-the-little-people-pay-their-bills-bill-hillary-stiff-their-lawyers/108857 "2002-05-13T17:57:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kittenblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ba8739/32.png) [@kittenblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kittenblue)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-the-little-people-pay-their-bills-bill-hillary-stiff-their-lawyers/108857/21 "2002-05-13T23:01:24Z")
One of my dear friends from high school is one of Clinton’s lawyers, and although his name wasn’t mentioned in the article, I sure hope that Clinton paid him…I don’t like it when people stiff my friends. Wonder if he feels as loyal to Clinton now… ---
**Author:** ![DPWhite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@DPWhite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPWhite)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-the-little-people-pay-their-bills-bill-hillary-stiff-their-lawyers/108857/22 "2002-05-13T23:08:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\ ***DPWhite** , didn’t Bill agree not to seek compensation as part of the deal by which the Inquisitor’s Office agreed not to see prosecution? Without a kind of a face-saving way out, Starr and Ray might still be at work. > > Megadittos on the comments re hatred. Limbaugh (or was it Paul Harvey who either lied or is not being properly credited by **december** here?) would blame Clinton for a rainy day. Fifty years hence, if they live that long, too, I’ll betcha. \*\* Bill probably made such a deal, but not Hillary. And whether the original news story is true, I don’t know. But the New York tabloids (not to mention the broadsheets) have zero credibility with me. As for the request for a cite, a cite on what? The amount of money for the investigation or the fact that the independent counsel law pays for the attorney fees for the not guilty? I’ve read it over and over in the papers on both points. Interesting how our political class protects themselves from the costs of prosecution. Normal innocent civilians do not get this protection. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-the-little-people-pay-their-bills-bill-hillary-stiff-their-lawyers/108857/23 "2002-05-13T23:33:32Z")
> [@](#): > > If the law firms don’t care about the debt, I’ll eat my hat. What kind of hat is it? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-the-little-people-pay-their-bills-bill-hillary-stiff-their-lawyers/108857/24 "2002-05-13T23:43:53Z")
**DPWhite** ,I was looking for the fact that the Clintons can have their attorney’s fees paid for by the government. I was under the impression that Bill agreed to not seek [attorney’s fees](http://usconservatives.about.com/bln0119ray.htm/), and that Hillary wasn’t going to push the issue. Normal innocent civilians always have the ability to obtain their attorney’s fees if they have been wrongfully prosecuted. Many people sue on the basis of wrongful prosecution, and seek to get money from the government. The entire problem with those suits, and, in my opinion the major reason the Clintons won’t seek reimbursement, is that, IIRC, they have to prove they are free from any wrongdoing. And nobody wants a long, drawn-out, investigation/lawsuit to determine that issue. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-the-little-people-pay-their-bills-bill-hillary-stiff-their-lawyers/108857/25 "2002-05-14T02:20:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*How about you show us they do care [about having their bills paid]? \*\* I do not know if you’re on salary or in private practice. In the former case, don’t you expect a salary check for the work you’ve done? My daughter’s internet start-up company went broke owing her a month’s salary. She was pissed. Wouldn’t you be? I’ve done a bit of consulting. When I sent out a bill, I wanted it to be paid. It wasn’t a way to say Happy Birthday. The bill sent to the Clintons is itself evidence that the lawyers cared about being paid. This message board has reached a new high or a new low. Imagine having to prove that someone who was working for fees cared about actually having those fees paid. Let’s try a survey: _Anyone on this board who failed to get fully paid for your work by a client or employer who was worth at least $18 million, but that was fine with you?_ ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-the-little-people-pay-their-bills-bill-hillary-stiff-their-lawyers/108857/26 "2002-05-14T02:42:54Z")
First of all, keep your numbers straight. $18M is what the Clintons allegedly made on advances, not what they owe their lawyers. According to the tabloid news story you linked to, their defense fund _paid off_ $7.7M, and owed $3.9M as of a year ago. So they, through their defense fund, have paid off 2/3 of their very considerable bill even according to your own source. Fuckin’ deadbeats, huh? Second, the $3.9M, even if it’s accurate, is split among several firms. Whatever incentive they have to bleed the Clintons dry, it’s a hell of a lot less than $3.9M. Skadden Arps, the preeminent NYC law firm, is allegedly still owed $86,000. Wow, that’s like 1.3% of that $7.7M bill. I bet that workd out to like $750 a partner. Fuckin’ deadbeats, huh? Third, do you have any sort of idea at all what Clinton’s contract with these guys says? Do you have any evidence whatsoever that the Clintons are contractually obligated to pay back the legal fees that were incurred on their behalf? Considering the gigantic, incalculable benefits of prestige and publicity that paid off to these firms, as well as their apparently total indifference to collection so much as a penny from the quite wealthy Clintons, I find it highly conceivable that the contract for legal services called for all fees to be paid out of the defense fund, with no recourse to the Clintons personally. Have you found any evidence to the contrary? In other words, get over yourself and go worry about something that actually matters for a change. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-the-little-people-pay-their-bills-bill-hillary-stiff-their-lawyers/108857/27 "2002-05-14T02:51:40Z")
**december** Survey’s are relegated to **IMHO** > [@](#): > > This message board has reached a new high or a new low. To the contrary, it reaches a new low almost every day. Assuming you keep posting. Why can’t you accept the advice of conservatives who have your best interest at heart? Quit posting such indefensible crap. ---
**Author:** ![DPWhite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@DPWhite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPWhite)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-the-little-people-pay-their-bills-bill-hillary-stiff-their-lawyers/108857/28 "2002-05-14T03:09:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hamlet \* > \*\ ***DPWhite** ,I was looking for the fact that the Clintons can have their attorney’s fees paid for by the government. I was under the impression that Bill agreed to not seek [attorney’s fees](http://usconservatives.about.com/bln0119ray.htm/), and that Hillary wasn’t going to push the issue. > > Normal innocent civilians always have the ability to obtain their attorney’s fees if they have been wrongfully prosecuted. Many people sue on the basis of wrongful prosecution, and seek to get money from the government. The entire problem with those suits, and, in my opinion the major reason the Clintons won’t seek reimbursement, is that, IIRC, they have to prove they are free from any wrongdoing. And nobody wants a long, drawn-out, investigation/lawsuit to determine that issue. \*\* My understanding on what the Clintons are going to do is the same as yours, they aren’t pushing it. While I am relieved not to have to listen to this crap for the most part on TV, I think that it is wrong to prosecute someone for their land deal gone bad and then change it to a blow job prosecution, and that someone should pay for this persecution of our country’s rightfully elected leader. As for not guilty (or just innocent) people being able to sue for wrongful prosecution, I’ve read the civil verdicts list in California for the past 15 years, and I might just be missing them, but I don’t see them and I was taught in law school that you pay the cost of your own defense, guilty or innocent. In all seriousness, if you know of a citation or doctrine that allows what you’ve described, please let me know, I have a civil case coming up that may be related to false criminal charges that would be very useful. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-the-little-people-pay-their-bills-bill-hillary-stiff-their-lawyers/108857/29 "2002-05-14T03:14:03Z")
You are on the verge of becoming boring. If someone clicks a post by you they know what they will read. Do you really want that? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-the-little-people-pay-their-bills-bill-hillary-stiff-their-lawyers/108857/30 "2002-05-14T04:08:30Z")
I would like to point to this thread as a perfect example of what’s going wrong with the Straight Dope. December posts an OP that has an entirely reasonable content. (reasonable in the sense that it’s not outside the realm of popular debate). He added cites to mainstream articles backing up what he said. The result? A host of messages attacking December. To Minty’s credit, he did a pretty credible job of refuting the OP. But most of the stuff in here is just pure ad hominem crap. This is the pit, so this stuff is allowed. I have no idea why December posted this here. But he gets the same response when he posts in GD. I’m not a Clinton basher, and I frankly find conservatives who can’t let it go to be tiresome. But the proper response if you’re bored by the OP is to IGNORE IT. Threads that are uninteresting will die. It’s never acceptable to just drop in and attack the poster, unless his OP itself is out of line. I swear, the tin-foil helmet, the-moon-landing-never-happened morons get more respect on this board than December gets. You may not like his opinions, but they DO represent the thinking of an awful lot of people, and are therefore valid debating topics on the SDMB. So back the fuck off and restrict your comments to the subject and not the poster. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-the-little-people-pay-their-bills-bill-hillary-stiff-their-lawyers/108857/31 "2002-05-14T04:49:49Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m not a Clinton basher, and I frankly find conservatives who can’t let it go to be tiresome. But the proper response if you’re bored by the OP is to IGNORE IT. _Your_ proper idea may be to ignore it. Others proper ideas may be to challenge it(as many did). You wrongly assume that we are **bored** by the **OP**. Rather, some of us may be in a constant state of _pissedoffedness_ that an obviously semi-intelligent poster can continue to act like a doofuss, ignoring constructive criticism from every corner of the political world. I mean, even the dumbest of dogs learns in time that when you roll up a newpaper, it might just be his ass that’s gonna get swatted. But not **december**. While it pains me, I have to conclude that he is just an attention seeker that can’t help himself. And he deserves every flame he gets. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-the-little-people-pay-their-bills-bill-hillary-stiff-their-lawyers/108857/32 "2002-05-14T12:15:35Z")
> [@](#): > > But the proper response if you’re bored by the OP is to IGNORE IT. Threads that are uninteresting will die. This is a catch 22 situation when it comes to december. If no one challenges him, he assumes he’s right. When he is challenged, he ignores it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-the-little-people-pay-their-bills-bill-hillary-stiff-their-lawyers/108857/33 "2002-05-14T12:39:51Z")
OJ Simpson hasn’t paid his lawyers yet…and the Clintons aren’t about to pay anytime soon…don’t you realize this? Lawyers PAD THEIR BILLS! You can figure that at least 50% of any lawyers bill is padded-so if they get 50% they are home free. The real issue is-why do we (the TAXPAYING public) have to subsidize the lawyers for rich people like the Clintons? Their unpaid legal bills willl be written off, and charged against taxes owed-so we the public get stiffed again, by these horrible excuses for human beings (Bill and Hillary Clinton). ---
**Author:** ![DougC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@DougC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DougC)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-the-little-people-pay-their-bills-bill-hillary-stiff-their-lawyers/108857/34 "2002-05-14T12:42:09Z")
- - - Yes, but _I_ am always right. So agree with me, and you’ll always be right, too. ~ - By the by, I see there’s a little person on the cover of the National Enquirer this week, looks a lot like an ex-president. Funny that, probably just a coincidence. Perhaps a genetic test is in order… ? “When I said ‘I have no hair’, I didn’t know what your definition of ‘hair’ was”. ! I read about this allegation a few years back, but there were no photos of exhibit Jr. to look at… - DougC ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-the-little-people-pay-their-bills-bill-hillary-stiff-their-lawyers/108857/35 "2002-05-14T13:25:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\*I swear, the tin-foil helmet, the-moon-landing-never-happened morons get more respect on this board than December gets. \*\* It’s because we try to be witty and amusing and post good cooking tips. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-the-little-people-pay-their-bills-bill-hillary-stiff-their-lawyers/108857/36 "2002-05-14T13:31:05Z")
**Sam** - IMHO, there’s two possible reasons for your observation - 1. The tin-foil hat types don’t stick around long. \*\*december \*\* has. 2. We’ve patiently explained over and over to **december** what is a cite, when he would be expected to provide one. And yet, over and over, he doesn’t. Now, Yorrick may have been a man of infinate jest and patience, but I (and others) are not. So, when he again pulls out from his latest ride home the ‘RUsh/ Paul Harvey’ gem of the week and doesnt’ do the least little bit to establish truth, well, we get a bit cranky. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-the-little-people-pay-their-bills-bill-hillary-stiff-their-lawyers/108857/37 "2002-05-14T13:40:58Z")
Should Conservative focus on minor Liberal indescretions? My own feeling is that this approach was useful for a long time, but its usefulness is waning. However, certain posters, are well-served by political-hustling, so I suspect the practice will continue, even though it may be doing more harm than good for Conservatives in general. This is a question of picking your battles, do you scream to the hills over every slight and insult, or do you focus on the things that will significantly improve your life? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jesuslynch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e99b99/32.png) [@jesuslynch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jesuslynch)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-the-little-people-pay-their-bills-bill-hillary-stiff-their-lawyers/108857/38 "2002-05-14T14:09:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ralph124c \* > \*\*…The real issue is-why do we (the TAXPAYING public) have to subsidize the lawyers for rich people like the Clintons? Their unpaid legal bills willl be written off, and charged against taxes owed-so we the public get stiffed again, … \*\* Not True. In order for them to charge it off against **Income** , not taxes, the law firm had to have recorded it as income in the first place. At best, it’s a wash. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-the-little-people-pay-their-bills-bill-hillary-stiff-their-lawyers/108857/39 "2002-05-14T14:32:53Z")
**DPWhite** , here’s a little bit of information about malicious prosecution suits. If it is the federal government involved (as it is in the Clinton’s cases), a vast majority of the cases are under Section 1983, which are civil rights violations. One Supreme Court case that dealt with it, and the issue of immunity for certain defendants, is Imbler v. Pachtman, 424 U.S. 409. In that case, the Court equated a section 1983 action against a prosecutor with a malicious prosecution action. To establish malicious prosecution, a plaintiff must ordinarily show the following elements: (1) a criminal proceeding against her attributable to the defendant; (2) termination of the action in the plaintiff’s favor; (3) lack of probable cause for the action; (4) the defendant maliciously brought the action; and (5) the action caused the plaintiff harm. I don’t know if that helps you out any in your case. My quick check indicates malicious prosecution suits are alive and well in California. You might want to check out the following ALR articles: 28 ALR 2d. 646 36 ALR 2d 786 59 ALR 2d 1413. They should give you a quick idea of whats going on. Oh, of course insert standard legal disclaimer here.[sub]unless I helped you win a civil suit with a huge judgment, in which case I want my cut[/sub] 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-the-little-people-pay-their-bills-bill-hillary-stiff-their-lawyers/108857/40 "2002-05-14T16:20:21Z")
> [@](#): > > I swear, the tin-foil helmet, the-moon-landing-never-happened morons get more respect on this board than December gets. And the difference would be…? > [@](#): > > The tin-foil hat types don’t stick around long. december has. Oh, I see. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-the-little-people-pay-their-bills-bill-hillary-stiff-their-lawyers/108857.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/only-the-little-people-pay-their-bills-bill-hillary-stiff-their-lawyers/108857.md?page=3)