# Ontario Court of Appeal upholds police officer's conviction for shooting **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 30, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-court-of-appeal-upholds-police-officers-conviction-for-shooting/813361 "2018-04-30T17:34:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-court-of-appeal-upholds-police-officers-conviction-for-shooting/813361/1 "2018-04-30T17:34:06Z")
There’s been at least one previous thread about this killing. Sammy Yatim was on a Toronto street car with a knife and acting oddly. The police were called and the matter all videoed by bystanders. Yatim started coming towards the police with the knife. One police officer fired three shots at Yatim, which took him down. The officer then fired six more shots. He said afterwards that he thought Yatim was getting up, but nothing in the videos confirmed that. The post-mortem indicated that Yatim was dying from the first three shots, which would have proven fatal in their own. The Crown brought two charges of murder and attempted murder, for each volley of shots. The jury acquitted the officer on the first volley, but convicted on attempted murder for the second volley. The officer appealed the conviction. The Ontario Court of Appeal, the highest Ontario court, today upheld the verdict. They held that the jury apparently had at least a reasonable doubt about the need for the first volley, in the circumstances, leading to the acquittal. However, the Court concluded that the trial judge did not err in accepting the Crown’s approach that each volley counted as a separate act, even though separated by only seconds, and that the jury could reasonably conclude that the second volley was unnecessary and thus attempt murder. > **[Appeal court upholds James Forcillo’s conviction, sentence in Sammy Yatim case](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-appeal-court-upholds-conviction-sentence-against-toronto-police/)** > > The Toronto police constable was convicted of attempted murder and given a six-year prison sentence for the 2013 shooting ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-court-of-appeal-upholds-police-officers-conviction-for-shooting/813361/2 "2018-04-30T18:03:28Z")
I am having to dredge up some doctrine from as far back as law school, but if I understand correctly, the officer is not guilty of murder because the first (fatal) volley was justified and the second volley did not cause the victim’s death, but he is guilty of attempted murder with the second volley, because shooting even a dead or dying man with the intent and belief that you are unjustifiably trying to kill him constitutes attempt? I’m not disagreeing with the verdict, just trying to work through it. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-court-of-appeal-upholds-police-officers-conviction-for-shooting/813361/3 "2018-04-30T18:36:15Z")
I agree with the conviction and the Ontario court’s decision. That video was difficult to watch, unlike the Yonge Street incident which was handled in an exemplary fashion. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-court-of-appeal-upholds-police-officers-conviction-for-shooting/813361/4 "2018-04-30T18:37:35Z")
I believe that’s the case, **Tom Tildrum**. Haven’t had a chance to read the decision yet. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-court-of-appeal-upholds-police-officers-conviction-for-shooting/813361/5 "2018-04-30T19:25:42Z")
Just to elaborate on my description of him “behaving oddly” - according to Wikipedia he was brandishing a switchblade at another passenger and exposed himself, then began yelling obscenities. The driver of the streetcar stopped the car and all the passengers got out safely. (Wasn’t trying to underplay his behaviour, but couldn’t remember the details and didn’t have time to check until now. ) > **[Killing of Sammy Yatim](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Sammy_Yatim)** > > The death of Sammy Yatim occurred early in the morning of July 27, 2013, in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Yatim, an 18-year-old Toronto male armed with a switchblade knife, was shot at nine times, and was hit by eight of the shots fired by 30-year-old Toronto Police Service (TPS) officer James Forcillo. After being shot, while lying on the floor of the streetcar he was tasered. He later died from the injuries. The incident occurred after Yatim, brandishing a 12 cm (4.7 in) switchblade knife in a T On... ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-court-of-appeal-upholds-police-officers-conviction-for-shooting/813361/6 "2018-05-01T04:55:39Z")
From what little I know, that makes sense. I’m not sure about the first one, but the second one definitely seems too much. Plus what I saw from that van murderer was that Canadian officers are supposed to use the least force, so he should have swapped to lower force as soon as the guy was down.