# Ontario provincial election: The Return of Ford Nation, Part II **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 3, 2018, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506 "2018-05-03T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/101 "2018-05-28T03:21:56Z")
Anyone watch the debate? I certainly didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/102 "2018-05-28T12:45:56Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Anyone watch the debate? I certainly didn’t. I came to post the same thing. 🙂 I might have watched it, if I lived in Ontario. I did hear that Horwath admitted the NDP made a math error, but then countered with “We haven’t seen any of your (Ford) numbers yet” (or something to that effect). Nice. 🙂 I respect Horwath for not trying to weasel out of the error and just saying that they made a mistake. Mistakes happen, the worst thing is to be a weasel about it (covfefe anyone?). ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/103 "2018-05-28T14:56:17Z")
[Another couple of flies:](https://pressprogress.ca/ontario-pc-candidate-shares-theory-linking-schools-and-hospitals-to-secret-globalist-conspiracy/) > [@](#): > > Ontario PC candidate Mohammad Latif retweeted a graphic shared by Scott Duquette, the local PC riding president in Windsor-Tecumseh, along with a message declaring “this is why I fight the NDP,” and added that he does not believe in “subjugating” the population of Ontario under “state control.” > > The graphic, retweeted by both Windsor-Tecumseh’s PC candidate and local riding president, is titled “globalist agenda” and lists how things like the education and healthcare systems are a ruse by a secret cabal to “control the people.” ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/104 "2018-05-28T15:41:07Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Anyone watch the debate? I certainly didn’t. Hubs started watching it but gave up saying it was mostly just people talking over each other. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/105 "2018-05-28T23:43:14Z")
I saw some of the highlights on the news this morning, but I didn’t see anything that really stood out. I get most of my daily election headline synopses from the TVO web site: [https://tvo.org/current-affairs/tag/ontario-election](https://tvo.org/current-affairs/tag/ontario-election) ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/106 "2018-05-29T01:52:00Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > [Another couple of flies:](https://pressprogress.ca/ontario-pc-candidate-shares-theory-linking-schools-and-hospitals-to-secret-globalist-conspiracy/) That’s a good way to lose votes in Canada, istm, but it’s not really a social conservative stance. More wackadoo fiscal conservative. Neither was your last data stealing/vote stuffing example. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/107 "2018-05-29T02:51:41Z")
And another fly: > [@](#): > > Ontario [PC candidate Donna Skelly](https://pressprogress.ca/ontario-pc-candidate-promoted-alt-right-website-linked-to-hate-figures-at-young-conservative-event/)gave a special ‘shout out’ to far-right extremists. . . . > > . . . . > > FBM’s YouTube channel includes videos featuring the following personalities: > > Paul Fromm: Described by the National Post as “one of Canada’s most notorious white supremacists,” with extensive links to neo-Nazi groups. > > James Sears: Editor of the racist, far-right publication ‘Your Ward News’ who was recently charged with hate crimes – according to CBC News, Sears published material that “portrayed Jews as dogs” and “glorified Hitler.” > > Kevin Johnston: Anti-Muslim blogger who was charged with a hate crime after offering $1,000 rewards for videos of Muslim school children. > > Faith Goldy: Former Rebel Media host denounced by Conservative MP Michael Chong for promoting “white supremacy” and “anti-Semitism” after she appeared on a neo-Nazi podcast. More recently, Goldy recommended a 1930s fascist book advocating the “the elimination of Jews.” ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/108 "2018-05-29T03:14:24Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > That’s a good way to lose votes in Canada, istm, but it’s not really a social conservative stance. More wackadoo fiscal conservative. Neither was your last data stealing/vote stuffing example. And that’s exactly the point: The current crop of Conservatives are still trying to act like they’re the moderate, sensible party of yesteryear, while in actual fact, they’re becoming more and more the Party of Stupid, with idiots like this as their candidates. They won’t publish a financial plan, but they will promote racism, conspiracy theories, and Trumpian “fake news” complaints. And it’s finally, _finally_ looking like this will cost them. They had this election in the bag, and may have thrown it away just to elect a know-nothing blowhard as their leader. If the PCs end up tanking, then every single one of those 30,000 idiots who voted for him in the leadership race should just sit down, STFU, and never engage in politics again. I just hope the rest of the conservatives in this country actually learn a lesson from all this. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/109 "2018-05-29T04:09:50Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > And another fly: What was she talking about while she was holding the hat? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/110 "2018-05-29T04:48:03Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > And that’s exactly the point: The current crop of Conservatives are still trying to act like they’re the moderate, sensible party of yesteryear, while in actual fact, they’re becoming more and more the Party of Stupid, with idiots like this as their candidates. They won’t publish a financial plan, but they will promote racism, conspiracy theories, and Trumpian “fake news” complaints. My point was that Muffin said > [@Muffin](#): > > Ford’s party attracts social-conservatives like like flies to shit, including the worst of them who are intent on limiting personal rights and freedoms, and the extremist alt-right crazies. But now he seems to be counting “flies” as any PC who gets caught at something, including one who iso far is guilty of holding a promo hat without any context. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/111 "2018-05-29T11:41:38Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > But now he seems to be counting “flies” as any PC who gets caught at something, including one who iso far is guilty of holding a promo hat without any context. Did you actually click on the link? In big type at the top it says > [@](#): > > Ontario PC Candidate Promoted Alt-Right Website Linked to Hate Figures at Young Conservative Event And a little further into the story it says > [@](#): > > Except ‘Free Bird Media’ (the hat says Free Bird Media) is an alt-right website whose video archives are filled with hours of speeches and interviews featuring prominent figures on Canada’s far-right, including two men recently charged with hate crimes. I’m not sure what your complaint against **Muffin** is, unless you think promoting an alt-right POV is just fine for political figures? ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/112 "2018-05-29T12:01:28Z")
Well then be good enough to lay out what she said while promoting the site. Holding a hat lacks a certain heft when it comes to promoting. Seriously I went and poked around and never found a statement by the woman related to the claim made by FBM’s creative director Cosmin Dzsurdzsa. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/113 "2018-05-29T14:57:44Z")
She promoted the alt-right by waving an alt-right hat at a public debate, which the alt-right took as a “shout out.” The alt-right is a very bad thing. Promoting the alt-right, as Skelly did, is a very bad thing. I don’t buy it that Skelly is so stupid as to promote an organization that she is ignorant of. Plausible deniability does not cut it. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/114 "2018-05-29T15:00:18Z")
And the CBC poll aggregator has flipped back, with the PCs now ahead of the NDP by a mere 0.2%. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/115 "2018-05-29T15:06:07Z")
My first suspicion is that the little shit heels gave her the hat just before she went on stage and she had no idea what FBM is. I found the speech Van Hamme gave at that event: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/L_5aDIg4-II/hqdefault.jpg "Alex Van Hamme Explains Why He Created Free Bird Media") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_5aDIg4-II) If she held the hat up after that, she has some explaining to do. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/116 "2018-05-29T18:09:41Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > I don’t buy it that Skelly is so stupid as to promote an organization that she is ignorant of. Plausible deniability does not cut it. But it’s bullshit for you to assume she was promoting the organization. For all you know all she said was “and here’s our next speaker who founded this website that’s on this hat he just gave me”. It was at a young conservative Christmas party ffs. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/117 "2018-05-29T20:47:30Z")
> > [@](#): > > Donna Skelly > @SkellyHamilton > Follow Follow @SkellyHamilton > More > To clarify, I was invited to a Christmas party by Mohawk McMaster Young Conservatives. I mingled with the crowd was handed a hat on my way to podium after speaking to a young man. I had never met him or heard of this group before. I stayed for 20 minutes and left before he spoke. > > 10:19 AM - 29 May 2018 from Hamilton, Ontario So write it up as stupidity for trusting young conservative flies enough to willingly advertise their cause for them without knowing what it was she was promoting. Stupid or malicious, hmmm, that’s quite a choice Ford is offering in that candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/118 "2018-05-30T03:18:58Z")
CBC poll aggregator now has the NDP ahead again and the PCs only 15 seats ahead of the NDP - still in majority territory, but just barely. Seems a very volatile electorate, but the PCs have been on a steady trend down. Two weeks ago, they were projected to win over 90 seats; now, just barely enough for a majority. Projected to take 67 seats; need 63 for a majority. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/119 "2018-05-30T04:23:54Z")
If you switch it to Toronto and GTA polling, the NDP is really gaining there too. This could be a real deal close one if that continues. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/120 "2018-05-31T02:24:53Z")
It seems the Tories managed to break an election promise before the election itself will be held. [ > [@](#): > > Ontario’s Progressive Conservatives have released a list of their spending promises but won’t be delivering a fully costed platform or a plan to eliminate the deficit before voters head to the poll on June 7. > > After weeks of vowing to deliver a fully costed platform like those released by the Liberals and New Democrats, the Tories quietly released their Plan for the People on Wednesday on the party’s website. While the document lists the price of many of the PCs’ initiatives, a party official confirmed that a full accounting of the Tories’ promises won’t be released before Election Day. ]([Ontario PCs quietly release platform without full costing - The Globe and Mail](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ontario-pcs-release-platform-without-full-costing/)) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506.md?page=7)