# Ontario provincial election: The Return of Ford Nation, Part II **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 3, 2018, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506 "2018-05-03T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/121 "2018-05-31T03:34:31Z")
I think most people realize that even with a small NDP lead in the polls, the Conservatives will still win power and the most seats given that most NDP supporters are urban and many constituencies are rural. A lot of Liberal voters will have to be convinced that the NDP is less risky than Ford and that Wynne can’t. It’s a tough call. I like the PC much more than its leader. Some odd candidates and lack of policy inspire little confidence. NDP has some good ideas but many expensive ones at a time when responsible budgeting is sorely needed as well as a troubled history. And the Liberals are, once again, a little too smug and carry the weight of some truly terrible policies. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/122 "2018-05-31T10:22:19Z")
You cannot seriously say ‘responsible budgeting’, and be talking about voting PC! First he promised to release his budget to pay for his platform before the election, but now, no can do! Won’t be released till after! How is that, in any way, shape or form responsible budgeting? I really can’t see him winning if he isn’t going to even attempt to explain how he’s gonna pay for all those crazy promises he’s making. Yknow, till _after_ the election. Sorry but that’s a ridiculous strategy, in my opinion. It screams that he’s in WAY over his head. Or, he believes that PC voters are truly the ultimate low information voters, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/123 "2018-05-31T11:48:24Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > I think most people realize that even with a small NDP lead in the polls, the Conservatives will still win power and the most seats given that most NDP supporters are urban and many constituencies are rural. A lot of Liberal voters will have to be convinced that the NDP is less risky than Ford and that Wynne can’t. This isn’t really the case. The Conservatives have an advantage because of the ridings in the GTA, not rural ridings. And a lot of Liberal voters have already been convinced, that’s why the left vote is coalescing around the NDP. That’s why they have a small lead and the Liberal poll numbers are in the toilet. From the CBC poll tracker page: > [@](#): > > The PCs are still projected to win the most seats because of their ability to win more ridings in the GTA-Hamilton-Niagara region, where they can win twice as many seats as the NDP despite a tie in the polls. The PCs are only ahead in eastern Ontario, while the NDP leads in Toronto and northern Ontario. The NDP’s lead in southwestern Ontario has diminished. The Liberals are strongest in Toronto and in eastern Ontario, their best hopes for retaining some seats. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/124 "2018-05-31T13:17:22Z")
This is easily the worst set of election choices I have ever been faced with in any election I have voted in. ☹ I guess I have no option but to vote NDP, but I’m sure as hell not happy about it. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/125 "2018-05-31T13:25:49Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > This is easily the worst set of election choices I have ever been faced with in any election I have voted in. ☹ > > I guess I have no option but to vote NDP, but I’m sure as hell not happy about it. I know what you mean. I’m kind of glad I don’t live in Ontario right now. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/126 "2018-05-31T13:31:41Z")
Missed the edit window. Although I have to say as NDP go, Andrea Horwath seems pretty decent. I don’t agree with the more extreme elements of the NDP, which is what keeps me from voting for them normally, by Andrea doesn’t seem to be one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/127 "2018-05-31T13:45:34Z")
The CBC poll tracker is now projecting the PCs at 66 seats. That’s very close to a hung Parliament; majority is 63. If the PCs come in first in seats but under 63, the NDP could form a government with Liberal support - the flip of the Peterson - Rae arrangement back in 1985. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/128 "2018-05-31T14:13:30Z")
Who knows? Maybe the Greens will pick up a couple and it could be an NDP-Green coalition. It all depends on the numbers of course. Although it is very unlikely the Greens will win even 1. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/129 "2018-05-31T14:29:14Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > This is easily the worst set of election choices I have ever been faced with in any election I have voted in. ☹ > > I guess I have no option but to vote NDP, but I’m sure as hell not happy about it. This is crazy, isn’t it? With almost any other leader the PCs would have sailed to victory but they had to choose a polarizing bozo who can’t even cobble together a party platform or get his promises costed out. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/130 "2018-05-31T14:59:40Z")
What’s crazier is that he’s always effectively been trading on the Ford name for his notoriety and his fame. A name mostly besmirched by the builder of the Ford Nation. How does anything about how THAT played out lead to a political career for a brother sharing that last name? How is it a political plus? The last one was an embarrassment to the city on the world stage, let’s give his brother a shot? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/131 "2018-05-31T18:50:35Z")
[Re. Ford in 2014](https://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/toronto2014election/2014/07/04/go_to_hell_doug_ford_tells_autistic_sons_dad_after_making_integrity_complaint.html) > [@](#): > > Responding to an integrity complaint by the father of an autistic son, Councillor Doug Ford said the man should “go to hell” and accused him of being part of a “jihad.” It is behavior such as that that has Ford attracting flies in this election. He is a bad person who attracts further bad people. He is also an incompetent person who attacks other partiesè economic platforms without even having one for his own party. It would be a mistake to believe that upon his party winning the election that he would suddenly change his ways. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/132 "2018-05-31T22:07:17Z")
[Ford in 2016 on his absolute unwavering support of Trump.](https://www.facebook.com/pressprogress/videos/807501792772970/) ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/133 "2018-05-31T22:10:42Z")
People can disagree on the distinction between suburban and rural areas, which are in flux around the GTA and parts of Southwestern Ontario. Ultimately, the NDP needs to convince Liberals to vote otherwise or the Conservatives will win a majority. Ford has already made his gaffes by not taking up the traditional Conservative position of fiscal responsibility, which would in fact help him. Personally choosing candidates, vitriolic language and a mixed record are less helpful… but he does know how to play to his supporters, who forgive him a great deal, in part since he is not Wynne nor the NDP. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/134 "2018-05-31T22:54:42Z")
I think it’s more the fact that there’s no alternative for a righty voter. The Liberal voters can feel somewhat safe voting NDP, the platform for the most part isn’t that different. Here’s a CBC article discussing how the polling is show that is in fact happening: > **[ANALYSIS | Vote Compass: Horwath taps those weary of Wynne, fearful of Ford |...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/horwath-ford-analysis-1.4682106)** > > NDP Leader Andrea Horwath appears to be benefitting from a combination of low support for Kathleen Wynne and trepidation by many voters to back a Doug Ford-led PC party. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/135 "2018-05-31T23:04:23Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > You cannot seriously say ‘responsible budgeting’, and be talking about voting PC! First he promised to release his budget to pay for his platform before the election, but now, no can do! Won’t be released till after! How is that, in any way, shape or form responsible budgeting? To be fair, catching a leprechaun and making him give you his pot of gold is harder than you might think. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/136 "2018-06-01T13:04:46Z")
And the PCs are back in the projected seat range for clear majority, low 70s seat range. This will be an interesting one to watch next week. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/137 "2018-06-01T17:03:54Z")
Ford will probably win. Unless he accuses Ontario voters of “being after my Lucky Charms”, or talking to the media. There are probably people who will vote for Ford who don’t admit it to friends (although in my experience Ford voters are refreshingly blunt). Maybe the same is true for Horwath, who got so much media attention her name was misspelled early in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/138 "2018-06-01T21:44:37Z")
So I’ve made up my mind - the only vote that I can cast in good conscience is for the Liberals for several reasons: 1. If I thought Wynne was crooked, I think Ford would be worse. 2. My riding is likely one of the few likely to stay red and I don’t want to split the vote. 3. I think that the Liberals losing official party status if they fall below 8 seats is bad for democracy. 4. The NDP seem very Bread and Circuses Having made my decision, I am going to the advanced poll tomorrow and then going to sleep until after the election! ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/139 "2018-06-01T23:35:36Z")
You’re throwing your vote away! 😃 😃 jk jk. Good on ya for voting early. My mind is sufficiently made up too, so its off to the advanced polls for me tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506/140 "2018-06-02T00:49:09Z")
Unsurprisingly the National Post endorses the Ford Tories. What a joke: [NP View: Ontario’s choice is clear, if less than ideal: A Progressive Conservative government](http://nationalpost.com/opinion/np-view-ontarios-choice-is-clear-if-less-than-ideal-a-progressive-conservative-government) > [@](#): > > Surviving senior party officials spoke openly of rot within the PCs, and the leadership race that selected Doug Ford as leader — by a convoluted formula, despite his losing the popular vote and the majority of ridings — was not terribly reassuring. > > On the campaign trail, meantime, Ford has stuck closely to his usual script of populist talking points while demonstrating a weak grasp on many policy files. The party and Ford himself have been accused of unbecoming riding-level shenanigans. And the party’s much-delayed “fully costed” plan of campaign promises, when it was finally published this week, is not anything like advertised. More like a glossy pamphlet of promises. So why the endorsement? Perhaps that’s what the Post/Sun media owners directed the editors to write? Just like in the 2015 (and 2011, 2008, 2006) federal elections? Or the 2014 Ontario & 2015 Alberta general elections? IMHO bought and paid endorsements don’t mean much in our information soaked democracy, however Sun media was practically doing free campaigning for the Tories and this sits uneasy for me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-provincial-election-the-return-of-ford-nation-part-ii/813506.md?page=8)