# Ontario To Implement The Most Cynical, Dumbest Government Move Of All Time **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 17, 2010, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-to-implement-the-most-cynical-dumbest-government-move-of-all-time/561038 "2010-11-17T23:26:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-to-implement-the-most-cynical-dumbest-government-move-of-all-time/561038/1 "2010-11-17T23:26:51Z")
I know that in the grand scheme of politics it’s saying a lot, but I’m quite convinced that this is the most outright cynical vote-buying move even made by a representative government: [http://www.moneyville.ca/article/891861--liberals-to-cut-hydro-bills-by-10-per-cent](http://www.moneyville.ca/article/891861--liberals-to-cut-hydro-bills-by-10-per-cent) For those of you not familiar with Ontario and power, electricity rates here are regulated by the government. The government, due to political pressure, sets those rates below what electricity actually costs, and so backfunds electricity with tax money. So what they’re going to do is just “cut” everyone’s power bill by 10%. Except, of course, that all that power will have to be paid for by the provincial government, with taxes. The province is still deep in the red so it’s all borrowed money, too. So in fact we’ll still be paying the 10%. But we’ll actually be paying more than that, because we’re borrowing it. And in fact we’ll be paying more still because they’re making electricity cheaper and so people will use more of it. Furthermore, this (futher) shifts the costs of using electricity **away from the person actually using it** and spreads it around among the taxpayers irrespective of how much electricity they use, when we’re already partially doing that. And this is the same government that wants to bad incandescent light bulbs so we’ll use less electricity. That has spent zillions on programs, rules, and admonishments to use less electricity. They are now trying to buy votes by making it so we will use MORE electricity, even though, in fact, we’ll just end up paying more than we did before, and the distribution of payments will be ever more unfair. So the government is going to make us pay more money, in an unfair and regressive way, that will cause more wasting of energy. I’m just flabbergasted. It’s so insanely stupid that it just might work (to win votes.) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-to-implement-the-most-cynical-dumbest-government-move-of-all-time/561038/2 "2010-11-18T00:40:56Z")
This is the part that just about made me spit my coffee all over my monitor: > [@](#): > > Senior officials confided the monthly relief is designed to help consumers cope with prices that continue to rise in part due to ambitious green-energy projects and new infrastructure So let’s get this straight - the government spends money on ‘green energy’ projects. This in turn drives up the price of electricity. So the government responds by subsidizing electricity, which causes people to use more of it. They will then pay for those subsidies with borrowed money. Your government in action. What a joke. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-to-implement-the-most-cynical-dumbest-government-move-of-all-time/561038/3 "2010-11-18T00:51:43Z")
Not sure there is a debate here. Maybe more Pit material, as I can’t see anything that makes sense about this except a cynical political move to garner votes. Dumbest government move of all time? I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-to-implement-the-most-cynical-dumbest-government-move-of-all-time/561038/4 "2010-11-18T01:03:47Z")
Yeah, the list of dumb government moves is long and distinguished. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-to-implement-the-most-cynical-dumbest-government-move-of-all-time/561038/5 "2010-11-18T01:14:58Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Yeah, the list of dumb government moves is long and distinguished. Good point, let’s get rid of it. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-to-implement-the-most-cynical-dumbest-government-move-of-all-time/561038/6 "2010-11-18T01:40:35Z")
But it’s ok guys, the deficit is $1 billion lower than expected so it’s just making us as bad off as we already thought we were. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-to-implement-the-most-cynical-dumbest-government-move-of-all-time/561038/7 "2010-11-18T02:40:22Z")
We already face supply issues in the province every single summer, in part because the cost doesn’t reflect supply and demand. I don’t support price gouging every single heat wave, but this is going to make our artificially low (well… low RELATIVE to what they should be) prices even lower, making supply issues worse this coming summer. Most cynical vote grabbing ever? My dad used to always tell me the time Mussolini came to his little two horse village, and offered everyone a boot - the left one - if they voted for him in the fascist “elections.” He promised to come back and bring them the other half of the pair as a reward for voting the right way. And he did! Is Dalton McGuinty on the same plane as Benito Mussolini? No comment. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-to-implement-the-most-cynical-dumbest-government-move-of-all-time/561038/8 "2010-11-18T05:01:25Z")
If they are pushing energy efficiency, I think that’s helpful. If Ontario is relying heavily on renewable energy sources, they can probably get away with this. Aren’t they big on hydroelectric generation? ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-to-implement-the-most-cynical-dumbest-government-move-of-all-time/561038/9 "2010-11-18T05:03:40Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > So the government responds by subsidizing electricity, which causes people to use more of it. Really? Who the hell uses significantly more electricity just because the price went down slightly? ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-to-implement-the-most-cynical-dumbest-government-move-of-all-time/561038/10 "2010-11-18T05:17:09Z")
I’m not directly supporting the measure mind you, but if one of the arguments against green technology is that poor people won’t be able to afford higher energy costs, then one solution is to make people who _can_ afford it pay for it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-to-implement-the-most-cynical-dumbest-government-move-of-all-time/561038/11 "2010-11-18T05:29:48Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > This is the part that just about made me spit my coffee all over my monitor: > > So let’s get this straight - the government spends money on ‘green energy’ projects. This in turn drives up the price of electricity. So the government responds by subsidizing electricity, which causes people to use more of it. They will then pay for those subsidies with borrowed money. > > Your government in action. What a joke. But China can sell you the green technology and then buy your debt. It’s a win/win. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-to-implement-the-most-cynical-dumbest-government-move-of-all-time/561038/12 "2010-11-18T05:44:17Z")
This sounds like our local government. Big push for water conservation. Signs that say “Use only what you need.” And then…usage is down, so guess what? Rates going up! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-to-implement-the-most-cynical-dumbest-government-move-of-all-time/561038/13 "2010-11-18T07:07:21Z")
This is basically just another example of the government redistributing money. As a policy it goes back to the Roman bread dole. It’s a bad idea but it’s hardly the dumbest example of it I’ve heard. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-to-implement-the-most-cynical-dumbest-government-move-of-all-time/561038/14 "2010-11-18T07:43:35Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > Really? Who the hell uses significantly more electricity just because the price went down slightly? People won’t make as much of an effort to use _less_ electricity if they can’t reap the full reward for doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-to-implement-the-most-cynical-dumbest-government-move-of-all-time/561038/15 "2010-11-18T08:06:00Z")
I’ve never been there, but everything I’ve read online indicates that Ontario is the worst province in Canada. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-to-implement-the-most-cynical-dumbest-government-move-of-all-time/561038/16 "2010-11-18T08:11:18Z")
I grew up in Saskatchewan, where the Devine government in the 80s sent a cheque for $1,000 to you if you were a farmer. Completely separate and outside of any government program to stabilize prices or provide drought relief or anything… all you had to do was point to a piece of farm equipment, and a cheque showed up. Surprise, surprise, Devine was re-elected entirely by rural communities. Vote purchasing has been much more naked than what you’re seeing Rickjay. OTOH, come to BC, where our now-resigned premier, Gordon Campbell, just had his 15% reduction in income tax (to offset implementing the HST) rolled back by his cabinet. I’m not sure what I should be cheering for anymore, but seeing the guys left behind do something to prevent another bulk purchase of approval ratings… well, all hope is not lost. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-to-implement-the-most-cynical-dumbest-government-move-of-all-time/561038/17 "2010-11-18T13:53:04Z")
> [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > I’ve never been there, but everything I’ve read online indicates that Ontario is the worst province in Canada. Well if you read it online it must be true.:rolleyes: What I find hilarious about this is how it feels so much like the Eves governments’ flailing about with power issues back in 2003. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-to-implement-the-most-cynical-dumbest-government-move-of-all-time/561038/18 "2010-11-18T14:35:07Z")
In America, I have been reading technical industry publications bleating frantically about the steep drop in energy costs they foresee in the near term. Energy producers and traders seem to regard falling energy prices as a national disaster. Bear in mind economists and politicians have been blaming high energy costs for almost every recession, and saying that cheap energy would save the country. So I don’t know what Ontario is doing wrong, but down here energy prices are _plunging_ sufficiently to alarm energy producers (if not the rest of us). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-to-implement-the-most-cynical-dumbest-government-move-of-all-time/561038/19 "2010-11-18T14:43:37Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > People won’t make as much of an effort to use _less_ electricity if they can’t reap the full reward for doing so. Cite? I mean, it makes sense in principle, but it costs like three cents to leave a light switched on. I seriously doubt anybody worries about that from a cost standpoint. ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-to-implement-the-most-cynical-dumbest-government-move-of-all-time/561038/20 "2010-11-18T15:39:09Z")
BREAKING NEWS: The government does something stupid! After the commercial: Sun expected to rise in the east. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ontario-to-implement-the-most-cynical-dumbest-government-move-of-all-time/561038.md?page=2)