# Ooooh, You Mean Ol' Pope, You! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 28, 2003, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooh-you-mean-ol-pope-you/191440 "2003-07-28T14:53:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooh-you-mean-ol-pope-you/191440/1 "2003-07-28T14:53:41Z")
VATICAN CITY (AP) - Alarmed by growing legal acceptance of gay marriages, the Vatican is issuing new instructions to bishops and Catholic politicians in an effort to halt the trend. The instructions are in a document prepared by the Church’s guardian of orthodoxy, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, that will be released Thursday, the Vatican said. It is titled, “Considerations Regarding Proposals to Give Legal Recognition to Unions Between Homosexual Persons.” Pope John Paul II and top Vatican officials have been speaking out for months against legislative proposals to legalize same-sex marriages in Europe, North America and elsewhere. In January, the pope approved guidelines for Catholic politicians that said church opposition to abortion, euthanasia and same-sex marriage was not up for negotiation. **It said laws safeguarding marriage between man and woman must be promoted** and that “in no way can other forms of cohabitation be placed on same level as marriage, nor can they receive legal recognition as such.” “ **Now the associations of homosexuals have a potent arm to obtain further concessions on the road toward full equality with married couples, including the right to adoption** ,” Cardinal Karl Lehman complained in a Vatican Radio interview. —Now, I’m hardly surprised that the Pope objects to gay marriage or adoption, of course. Or that he would tell Catholics not to be gay (!) or to object to same. But could he please leave the rest of us non-Catholics in peace to decide what’s right for us? Wish I could meet him in person, what a snubbing I’d give him! I’d snap my fingers in his face and go, “_This_ for you, you mean ol’ Pope, you!” ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooh-you-mean-ol-pope-you/191440/2 "2003-07-28T15:31:24Z")
You know, just once I’d like to hear a high-ranking religious leader say, “Well, we don’t really agree with that practice, but you know what? We don’t control the laws and we don’t want to. As long as no homosexuals are getting married in the churches of our religion, we’re cool.” Yeah, it’s a sin according to their useless little book. So is adultery. That’s a sin that has a _victim_, even! So why don’t the religious leaders push for laws against that? I mean, hell, members of their own churches are committing that one every day. Isn’t that like taking a big 'ol smelly, corn-filled dump on “the sanctity of marriage?” ---
**Author:** ![carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrot)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooh-you-mean-ol-pope-you/191440/3 "2003-07-28T15:42:22Z")
I just can’t believe that somebody in the goddamn Vatican had enough time on their hands to sit down and write **twelve fucking pages** about how homsexuals shouldn’t be allowed to have legal recognition of their relationships. Fuck them. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooh-you-mean-ol-pope-you/191440/4 "2003-07-28T15:43:38Z")
Yeah . . . I have no problem whatsoever with the Pope telling Catholics not to have gay sex, or abortions, or whatever. _That’s his job_. But when he starts trying to affect the laws telling _non_-Catholics how to live, I have to put my daintily-shod foot down and say, “Fie to_you_, you ol’ _Pope!_” ---
**Author:** ![andygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@andygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andygirl)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooh-you-mean-ol-pope-you/191440/5 "2003-07-28T15:48:53Z")
I am shocked by the Pope’s condemnation of my alternative lifestyle. Shocked and horrified, I tell you. And here I thought all of this time that he was a fan of lesbo methodist girls like me. Now that I officially know I have the Pope’s disapproval I’m going to have to transfer to a Catholic school and make things simply willy-nilly. 'Cause I’m evil like that. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooh-you-mean-ol-pope-you/191440/6 "2003-07-28T15:51:51Z")
The problem is not his condemnation, but his encouragement of laws that affect non-Catholics as well. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooh-you-mean-ol-pope-you/191440/7 "2003-07-28T15:52:12Z")
How about an indignant, “Well, _really!_” and a toss of your head? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooh-you-mean-ol-pope-you/191440/8 "2003-07-28T15:53:39Z")
> [@](#): > > But could he please leave the rest of us non-Catholics in peace to decide what’s right for us? I missed it - could you point to where the Pope is interfering with your right to make up your mind by disagreeing with you? Gosh, he is being just so in-your-face and intrusive, by issuing a statement from the Vatican, addressed to Catholics, on Catholic doctrine and morals. How dare he! The nerve! Do you really find it so hard to sleep at night, knowing that somewhere, someone disagrees with you? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooh-you-mean-ol-pope-you/191440/9 "2003-07-28T15:54:24Z")
Oh, **carrot** , if you really want to get worked up, think about the person in the goddamned Vatican who has enough time on his hands to sit down and _translate those whole twelve pages into Latin_. Those BASTARDS, wasting taxpayer money like that! ---
**Author:** ![carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrot)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooh-you-mean-ol-pope-you/191440/10 "2003-07-28T16:01:33Z")
**lno** : Hey, yeah! I didn’t even think of that! [sub]But I don’t really think they get taxpayer money. Something about being a separate country.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooh-you-mean-ol-pope-you/191440/11 "2003-07-28T16:01:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > \*\*I missed it - could you point to where the Pope is interfering with your right to make up your mind by disagreeing with you? \*\* Ummm, right here, **Shodan** : “It said laws safeguarding marriage between man and woman must be promoted and that in no way can other forms of cohabitation be placed on same level as marriage, nor can they receive legal recognition as such.” He is trying to keep gay marriage and adoption\* illegal for everyone\*, not just for Catholics. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooh-you-mean-ol-pope-you/191440/12 "2003-07-28T16:01:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > \*\*I missed it - could you point to where the Pope is interfering with your right to make up your mind by disagreeing with you? \*\* > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Eve_ > **It said laws safeguarding marriage between man and woman must be promoted** Glad to be of help. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooh-you-mean-ol-pope-you/191440/13 "2003-07-28T16:02:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > **I missed it** Those were the only correct words in your post Shodan. Please bother to read the OP, where Eve’s even gone to the bother of highlighting relevant sections. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooh-you-mean-ol-pope-you/191440/14 "2003-07-28T16:04:54Z")
_Ow!_ I bumped my head into **Revtim** and **Gary Kumquat**! ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooh-you-mean-ol-pope-you/191440/15 "2003-07-28T16:07:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by carrot \* > **I just can’t believe that somebody in the goddamn Vatican had enough time on their hands to sit down and write twelve fucking pages about how homsexuals shouldn’t be allowed to have legal recognition of their relationships.** Really, what DO they do all day there? I can imagine a typical day: 1. Check email 2. Check if Christ is still dead 3. repeat ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooh-you-mean-ol-pope-you/191440/16 "2003-07-28T16:15:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andygirl \* > \*\*Now that I officially know I have the Pope’s disapproval I’m going to have to transfer to a Catholic school and make things simply willy-nilly. 'Cause I’m evil like that. \*\* Yeah, those uniforms are pretty hot, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooh-you-mean-ol-pope-you/191440/17 "2003-07-28T16:21:44Z")
Ever since Galileo, the church has been in an eternal retreat from the daylight of scientific reason. This is yet another feeble attempt to draw a line in society’s sand, beyond which; “We must go no further!” Rational thought has always expanded beyond such close-minded limitations and, as humanity comes of age, it shall one day shed this sort of benighting cloak for once and all. How nice that one of the most repressive institutions on earth made clear its inability to accept reality. Please remind yourself that this is the same organization that, only recently, officially and finally accepted the fact that the earth orbits the sun. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooh-you-mean-ol-pope-you/191440/18 "2003-07-28T16:32:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zenster \* > \*\*Ever since Galileo, the church has been in an eternal retreat from the daylight of scientific reason. \*\* Saying that governments should promote marriage or that gay couples shouldn’t have the same rights as straight couples aren’t factual statements. They’re value statements. So it’s not a matter of the Vatican refusing to accept reality. It’s a matter of them having values with which you disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooh-you-mean-ol-pope-you/191440/19 "2003-07-28T16:34:04Z")
. . . and them trying to force their values onto us by affecting the laws. ---
**Author:** ![carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrot)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooh-you-mean-ol-pope-you/191440/20 "2003-07-28T16:51:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Revtim \* > \*\*Really, what DO they do all day there? > > I can imagine a typical day: > > 1. Check email > 2. Check if Christ is still dead > 3. repeat \*\* Oh, I imagine that their lives are rich and full. I mean, you’ve got the shopping trips to pick up more bibs for the pope, his old ones having long been saturated with drool; the release of other twelve-page reports on such diverse issues as human cloning and birth control in a variety of languages; the near-constant genuflecting… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooh-you-mean-ol-pope-you/191440.md?page=2)