# Ooooooh... Kyle's mom's a bitch **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 22, 2015, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooooh-kyles-moms-a-bitch/741075 "2015-12-22T05:56:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooooh-kyles-moms-a-bitch/741075/41 "2015-12-23T01:54:30Z")
Just wanted to agree on the bitchiness of Kyle’s mom. Those poor kids, having their good time spoiled by someone more concerned with their own agenda than the well being of any children involved. She sucks. ETA: And I also, as a Christian, see the religious side for those who are devout and just plain ol’ Christmas for those who aren’t. Santa, obviously, is part of the latter group, regardless of origins. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooooh-kyles-moms-a-bitch/741075/42 "2015-12-23T02:01:59Z")
I’m with the mother. OK to mention the holiday but completely inappropriate to write letters to Santa or to take a field trip to see Santa. The argument that these are all secular symbols doesn’t hold water. If that is true, then why not change the gift giving and tree decorating to Arbor Day? Why does the celebration have to be tied to Christmas? It’s one thing to teach about a variety of holidays and maybe even have them sing songs or play games typical of each holiday but it is something entirely different to arrange an entire field trip and classroom assignments around a tradition that is tied to a religious holiday. Not to mention that some families don’t want their children to believe in Santa Claus and asking these children to write letters and sit on Santa’s lap is not appropriate. If parents want to teach children to believe in fantasy figures that can do so in the home. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooooh-kyles-moms-a-bitch/741075/43 "2015-12-23T02:57:57Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Ooooooh… Kyle’s mom’s a bitch Yeah, but has she got it going on? > [@Yllaria](#): > > As each girl came of age, Saint Nick would toss a purse of gold coins through their window to land in one of that girl’s stockings. So all three were able to marry instead of embracing whoredom. And if that doesn’t give you a nice Christmas glow, I don’t know what will. Brings a tear to the eye of a brother. _sniff_ When is the Hallmark Channel movie being broadcast? > [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > What both right-wing cranks and left-wing PC stereotypes fail to realize is that by replacing “Merry Christmas” with “Happy Holidays” you are still etymologically wishing people have a joyous time during the holiest of days. Why I wish “Happy Holidays,” from another thread (with revisions): > [@Stupid Republican idea of the day](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/26259): > > I know that Texas Protestants only count three holidays this time of year, Black Friday (in liturgical terms it begins at sundown on Thanksgiving; in football terms you can include the whole previous day), Christmas, and New Years Day ;), but as a piss-poor Lutheran but a one-time very good Catholic I did a quick run-through of the holiday season. Advent began 11/29, St Nicholas’s feast day was 12/6, the feast of the Immaculate Conception was 12/8, Christmas is 12/25, St Stephen’s Day is 12/26, the Feast of the Circumcision (I lapsed a long time ago) is 1/1, and Epiphany is 1/6. Then Eastern Rite has some of the dates wrong but because my brother went Russian I have to be aware of them, Jews have Hanukkah sometime during this period (have I mentioned that I hate movable feasts?), Muslims can’t agree on a day to–or whether to–celebrate the birth of the Prophet but it’s in there somewhere, and then there’s Kwanzaa, if anybody but white elementary schoolteachers still celebrate it. > > I think that’s a full plate of Holiday Season, better than a month, to hope people enjoy, and I’m not even including the Wiccans, Buddhists, Hindus, and everybody else. By limiting it to Merry Christmas, “merry” being an inappropriate emotional response to the birth of our Lord, I feel some people give me a theological poke in they eye, and I don’t like it. :mad: The Easter holiday season, starting with Western Ash Wednesday, 2/10, and ending on Eastern Pentecost on 6/19, with everybody having a holiday or five in between, starts to be awkwardly long. The lesson is that every day somebody is celebrating a holiday, and if you wish everybody a happy holiday some will be pleased by your inclusiveness. And everybody else will be offended. I don’t have the kinks worked out. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooooh-kyles-moms-a-bitch/741075/44 "2015-12-23T03:12:49Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > You don’t have to separate Santa from Christmas, you have to separate christmas from christianity. Sorry, but this is pretty hard to support. The central message of the holiday is religious. It’s a religious celebration, that also has many secular aspects. > [@DigitalC](#): > > Devout christians and jews seem to be the only ones left who still think this is a religious holiday. I think you’ll find a lot more people in the US who are not devout still celebrate some religious aspects of the holiday. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooooh-kyles-moms-a-bitch/741075/45 "2015-12-23T03:16:48Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > [Kindergarten Trip to Visit Santa Canceled After Mom Complains, Parents Stage Walkout](http://news.yahoo.com/kindergarten-trip-to-visit-santa-1326217319448630.html) > > Totally reminded me of the _South Park_ episode ‘Mr. Hankey, The Christmas Poo’. > > I don’t want religious activities in school, but Santa Claus is pretty secular. Santa secular? No, it’s not. Christmas may be chosen to be celebrated in a secular way, but Christmas and its trappings are a religious holiday. You may pray for the future of this country on 4th of July, but it’s not a religious holiday. You may ignore the religion in Christmas, but that doesn’t make it secular. FWIW a teacher once sent my son to the principal’s office for saying he didn’t believe in Santa, after he had been directly asked by another kid. I’m not sure it’s the non-Christains who can be over sensitive here. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooooh-kyles-moms-a-bitch/741075/46 "2015-12-23T03:18:42Z")
You’ll also find many atheists and Jews who celebrate Christmas. You can celebrate Christmas completely secular you know. ETA: sure it does. On Christmas my family exchanges presents under a tree, we have A Christmas Story playing on TV, and at night we may drive around looking at lights. We’re all Jews/atheists. There is nothing whatsoever religious in how we celebrate Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooooh-kyles-moms-a-bitch/741075/47 "2015-12-23T03:19:17Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > But I’ll bet you willingly take the day off, with pay, from work. I’ve never been given the choice, my office has always been closed on Christmas. I’ve always taken the High Holidays off and either used vacation time or organized comp time with my boss for those days. I’ve never worked retail or other 24/7 type jobs, but Jewish friends have often volunteered to work on Christmas or Easter when needed. In the past (before I married a Catholic woman) I would go eat dinner in Chinatown with Jewish friends and catch a movie. If I had to work it wouldn’t have mattered to me. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooooh-kyles-moms-a-bitch/741075/48 "2015-12-23T03:21:04Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > You can celebrate Christmas completely secular you know. I can’t. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooooh-kyles-moms-a-bitch/741075/49 "2015-12-23T03:21:55Z")
Too soon/late to point out that there is biblical justification for placing Jesus’ b’day in December? Please try to disregard all the math mumbo-jumbo to place it there. The only biblical reference seems to put the birth in springtime. As a pastafarian - The existence of Jesus is not ironclad but I’ll give it some slack in that some similar folks with religious reform motivations were out and about. Many of you may not believe in Santa; but the whole virgin birth, manger, stable (Joseph wouldn’t have put up with that crap), wise men, census/tax payment, star, probably the wrong Bethlehem, etc… doesn’t go down without a whole pillar of salt. Santa and the elves seems to have a better PR narrative and equal believability index. (why yes, I do go around putting toy soldiers and Star Wars characters in people’s nativities. Why? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooooh-kyles-moms-a-bitch/741075/50 "2015-12-23T03:23:06Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > You’ll also find many atheists and Jews who celebrate Christmas. You can celebrate Christmas completely secular you know. > > ETA: sure it does. On Christmas my family exchanges presents under a tree, we have A Christmas Story playing on TV, and at night we may drive around looking at lights. We’re all Jews/atheists. There is nothing whatsoever religious in how we celebrate Christmas. Only Jews I know who celebrate Christmas are in interfaith marriages, so they’re honoring their spouses traditions. I get Christmas off too, because it’s winter break. Most of society is organized to make celebrating Christian holidays easy. To observe my holidays I have to twist my schedule around, or more often, don’t celebrate it. It’d be nice if Christians recognized how easy it is to observe their holidays to whatever degree they want and give the rest of us a break from making Christian traditions now just American traditions. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooooh-kyles-moms-a-bitch/741075/51 "2015-12-23T03:24:35Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I can’t. That’s up to you then, but it’s false to say other people can’t celebrate a secular Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooooh-kyles-moms-a-bitch/741075/52 "2015-12-23T03:26:55Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > That’s up to you then, but it’s false to say other people can’t celebrate a secular Christmas. Again, one can, but that doesn’t make it inherently a secular holiday. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooooh-kyles-moms-a-bitch/741075/53 "2015-12-23T03:39:23Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > You don’t have to separate Santa from Christmas, you have to separate christmas from christianity. Well said–thank you. All kinds of non-Christian families celebrate (in one way or another) what is essentially a non-Christian tradition in the U.S. that is called “Christmas.” (Don’t let the name fool you.) > [@DigitalC](#): > > . . . There is nothing christian about Santa, or christmas trees, or yule logs, or presents, or absolutely anything else people do to celebrate christmas. Right. There’s no _religious_ reason for Jews not to do these things, too. They’re no different than shooting off fireworks on the 4th of July. Those who pretend that they are practicing Christianity with all these things are full of it. They might as well throw off the pretense and just enjoy it for what it is, without all the hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooooh-kyles-moms-a-bitch/741075/54 "2015-12-23T03:46:05Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Again, one can, but that doesn’t make it inherently a secular holiday. If one is honest about it, one will admit that it _is_ secular–at least throughout the majority of the U.S.–no matter what people say. The Church tried to make it Christian, and one can argue about to what degree it was originally successful, but Americans have re-paganized it. Yes, Americans give all kinds of lip service to trite religious notions when Christmas comes around, but, like most (Christian) religious talk in America, it’s mostly for show. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooooh-kyles-moms-a-bitch/741075/55 "2015-12-23T03:51:16Z")
No matter how you spin it, it’s not a secular holiday. Doesn’t make me dishonest to see it that way. I’ve never met a Jew who felt it was secular. So those of you who celebrate it may not understand how it feels to someone who actively identifies with another cultural tradition. Frankly, it’s kind of rude of those people to keep insisting that how I feel about it is simply wrong. Of course it feels secular to folks in the mainstream, but it’s not. I’m not sure why it’s so important to people to make it mainstream and secular. Why it’s so important to convince folks like me that I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooooh-kyles-moms-a-bitch/741075/56 "2015-12-23T03:52:22Z")
There are two holidays, both unfortunately celebrated on the same date, and going by the same name. The one, called Christmas, is a secular holiday marked by trees, Santa, presents and an explosion of mercantile excess. The other, named Christmas, is a liturgically relatively unimportant commemorating of Christ’s birth, marked by a religious service and for some, a nativity scene. Protesting a manger? Go for it. Protesting Santa? Stupid. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooooh-kyles-moms-a-bitch/741075/57 "2015-12-23T04:05:53Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > No matter how you spin it, it’s not a secular holiday. Doesn’t make me dishonest to see it that way. I’ve never met a Jew who felt it was secular. So those of you who celebrate it may not understand how it feels to someone who actively identifies with another cultural tradition. Frankly, it’s kind of rude of those people to keep insisting that how I feel about it is simply wrong. Of course it feels secular to folks in the mainstream, but it’s not. > > I’m not sure why it’s so important to people to make it mainstream and secular. Why it’s so important to convince folks like me that I’m wrong. The two things are not mutually exclusive. No one wants to deny your feelings. The point is that you shouldn’t think your feelings result from any kind of religious piety on the part of those celebrating Christmas, because that religious piety doesn’t exist. You might say they result from ethnic exclusion, but that’s something different. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooooh-kyles-moms-a-bitch/741075/58 "2015-12-23T04:14:05Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > What, you mean like talking, sword-fighting cats? Superheroes? Spiders that talk to pigs and write in English? Car-driving toads? Hookah-smoking caterpillars? Santa’s just another fictional character. Some kids believe he’s real, just like Spiderman is real. (And Spiderman has been known to visit schoolchildren.) Some kids don’t believe in Santa Claus. But even the kids who don’t believe in Santa like to go on outings. I am real! :mad: Sorry, Johnny L.A., but you’re wrong on this one. > [@dropzone](#): > > Yeah, but has she got it going on? No, that’s [Stacy’s Mom](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZLfasMPOU4) :o :smack: > [@guizot](#): > > Right. There’s no _religious_ reason for Jews not to do these things, too. They’re no different than shooting off fireworks on the 4th of July. > > Those who pretend that they are practicing Christianity with all these things are full of it. They might as well throw off the pretense and just enjoy it for what it is, without all the hypocrisy. Wrong. It got it’s start as a religious holiday. While this country is majority Christian, there are millions of people who are neither Pagans nor Christians & therefore shouldn’t be forced to celebrate an event for another religion. Writing letters to Santa & a field trip to see Santa/sit on his lap is inappropriate. Independence Day is about the founding of this country; there’s no religious basis to that day. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooooh-kyles-moms-a-bitch/741075/59 "2015-12-23T04:16:08Z")
I hear what your saying, but frankly I think it’s a distinction without a difference. Call it what you will, but it’s rather patronizing for those folks to say that it’s no big deal, we Jews could celebrate if wanted to, without understanding that most of us don’t want to and don’t want it to become just another secukar/American holiday. ETA: reply to guizot ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooooh-kyles-moms-a-bitch/741075/60 "2015-12-23T04:19:21Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I can’t. You don’t have to let the Christians steal the season, the evergreens and lights and presents and all things ending in “olly”. I never saw Santa as a religious figure, even as a Catholic child. The season always had three components. The Christian religious holiday, the secular gift-giving holiday, and the undefined pagan holiday (Druids and mistletoe and Germans and tannenbaume and Yule logs and Stonehenge and the solstice). Santa was definitely secular. I am still mildly nauseated by displays with both Santa and a manger scene; I find them blasphemous, and I am no longer religious. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooooh-kyles-moms-a-bitch/741075.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ooooooh-kyles-moms-a-bitch/741075.md?page=4)