# Oops. Looks like we were lied to about Obamacare after all. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2013, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534 "2013-10-29T07:22:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/281 "2013-10-30T23:27:32Z")
Yes - but a single payer system is also far cheaper. The UK NHS covers every legal resident for less per capita than what we spend on health insurance _administration_ alone. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/282 "2013-10-30T23:34:14Z")
True. But it’s not Medicare, either. Medicaid is a more accurate representation. [http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2009/08/life-expectancy-higher-in-us-than-uk-at.html](http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2009/08/life-expectancy-higher-in-us-than-uk-at.html) The US has better life expectancy after age 65 than the UK. That’s as direct a comparison of Medicare vs. the NHS as you’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/283 "2013-10-30T23:42:42Z")
True. Now imagine how good our system would be if we weren’t spending billions to determine if people were eligible for care, or if a certain procedure should be covered by this plan or that supplemental plan, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/284 "2013-10-30T23:43:06Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I did try, but after quite a bit of googling I couldn’t find the full text of any of the times he said it (it appears to have been more than once.) I just looked at a bunch of videos on Youtube. Looked for longer ones. I watched a bunch and never heard one mention of how the “context” would change anything. But I did find that he put forth the same lie again and again. So, if it turns out that he never offered the “context” that would make the lie not a lie, wood you be willing to admit that he simply lied, repeatedly? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/285 "2013-10-30T23:48:51Z")
No. As I said already, it’s true, to a degree. The administration grandfathered in any plan that existed at the time the ACA was passed. It’s misleading. It’s not a lie. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/286 "2013-10-31T00:16:30Z")
It’s so hard to prove that someone lied. I don’t even think that’s worth debating. Let’s just say that Obama did not make a sincere effort to make sure everyone knew exactly what was going to happen. Hence the surprises. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/287 "2013-10-31T00:18:05Z")
If that was all he did, it would be one thing. But then he accused the critics of the law of lying. It’s entirely fair to hold him to the very standards of honesty that he demanded of his critics. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/288 "2013-10-31T00:20:27Z")
When did he do that? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/289 "2013-10-31T00:25:53Z")
The entire message of pushback against the law’s bad poll numbers was to say that dishonest critics were misinforming people about the law. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/290 "2013-10-31T00:45:19Z")
Far too simplistic. The entire message? Seriously? No other points were made, no corrections offered? Only thing he ever said in his pushbacks were that the other guys were lying? Besides which, honesty is not simply a matter of facts, a clever man can string together a set of facts that will lead someone to a false conclusion. Like the car salesman who sincerely informs you of the cars great mileage, peppy performance and anti-luck brakes, but neglects to advise about the transmission held together with duct tape. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/291 "2013-10-31T00:49:14Z")
> [@Rotten Sumbitch](#): > > anti-luck brakes, Those poor people. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/292 "2013-10-31T00:55:40Z")
It is almost impossible to make a case without misstatements. It happens all the time on this board. We aren’t thereby justified is telling others “we were lied to.” Is accuracy better? Yes. Is there ever going to be a democratic politician whose statements are completely accurate? Not if they make a case for a controversial policy. What about a politician who always admits to error when called on it? Not that either. All politicians should explain how each policy they champion is based on uncertain information, and has winners and losers. But I don’t expect it and can live a fine life without it. ---
**Author:** ![NonaSequitur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@NonaSequitur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NonaSequitur)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/293 "2013-10-31T02:19:15Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Here’s the real problem that Americans wanted dealt with that the ACA does nothing about: the cost of health care. It is well documented that: > > 1. Most prices that the doctor/hospital come up with for services and procedures are pulled out of their ass with no basis for actual costs. > 2. On the schedule of fees, insurance companies pay a discounted amount with the non-insured pay full price - a price that even when discounted for the insurance companies still makes a profit for the doctor/hospital. > 3. A growing mistrust of doctors thought to be in the pockets of big pharma. Certainly a lack of any innovative thinking in diagnosis and treatments. > 4. The de-emphasis of primary care which would lower costs and improve health. > > So yes it’s cool that every American can theoretically get insurance but at what (financial) cost for everyone else and does it really resolve the healthcare issues? This this this. How is the ACA going to remedy the problems detailed in this Time Magazine article on the cost of health care: [link](http://www.uta.edu/faculty/story/2311/Misc/2013,2,26,MedicalCostsDemandAndGreed.pdf)?. Seems to me the law will embolden all the major players (hospitals, big pharma, medical device manufacturers, as well as the health insurance companies) to keep gouging the public since we will be mandated to purchase the product. Already the health insurance companies are revising their forecasts upwards ([link](http://www.forbes.com/sites/brucejapsen/2013/10/26/despite-glitches-obamacare-profit-windfall-to-insurers-well-underway/)…The whole rollout just greatly underscores the fact that we shouldn’t even be tasked with _shopping_ for something as fundamental as healthcare, which is a basic right in all other advanced nations. Ok rant over. Other potential issues with the law: [Narrow Networks](http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/29/health/obamacare-doctors-limited/) [High deductibles](http://kaiserfamilyfoundation.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/8177.pdf) [Cadillac tax will incentivize employers to drop high quality plans](http://www.suntimes.com/news/22686154-418/employers-shifting-costs-to-avoid-obamacare-cadillac-tax.html) [Millions left uninsured by failure of Medicaid expansion](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/03/health/millions-of-poor-are-left-uncovered-by-health-law.html?_r=0) (fault of Republican governors, I know) [Over the long run, employers may stop offering health insurance since the ACA presents a cheaper (to them) alternative](http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/04/will_the_aca_cause_employers_t.html) \<\<\< Though Ezra Klein, the author of the post doesn’t believe this, I think the chances of this happening are good if the ACA is not a total disaster… ---
**Author:** ![NonaSequitur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@NonaSequitur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NonaSequitur)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/294 "2013-10-31T02:22:49Z")
Oh by the way, I thought Obama’s “you can keep your insurance” promise was more directed to the majority of insured folks who get their insurance through their employers and/or the government (Medicare/ Medicaid). But yeah, it was tad misleading when considering those who purchase insurance on the individual market… ---
**Author:** ![irontaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@irontaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irontaser)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/295 "2013-10-31T03:00:43Z")
Okay, so I have posted this in another thread to hear other people’s reactions, but I saw this thread and though it would be fitting to include here… A little much needed comic relief. Check out the new healthcare site 🙂 [http://newhealthcaregov.com/](http://newhealthcaregov.com/) ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/296 "2013-10-31T04:05:30Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No. As I said already, it’s true, to a degree. The administration grandfathered in any plan that existed at the time the ACA was passed. It’s misleading. It’s not a lie. That might excuse has early statements, not the later ones. He knew that millions of people would not be able to keep their healthcare. Yet, he repeatedly made very declarative statements saying we could. Even adding the “period” at the end of the statement. I am extremely careful in concluding anyone lied, but that’s what Obama did here. He knew exactly what he was doing: Lie for the greater good. And then what are they gonna do? Squat. Especially with the the compliant media. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/297 "2013-10-31T04:58:03Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If that was all he did, it would be one thing. But then he accused the critics of the law of lying. It’s entirely fair to hold him to the very standards of honesty that he demanded of his critics. Quotes? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/298 "2013-10-31T11:39:10Z")
I’m having trouble finding the more heated things he said while trying to sell the law. So far, I’ve found this from this year: “The same folks who fought tooth and nail a couple years ago and tried to make political hay out of ‘Obamacare’ are still telling tall tales about its impact,” he said. > **[Political News: State of the Union, White House, Congress, Photos, Videos...](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics?lite)** > > Find the latest political news stories, photos, and videos on NBCNews.com. Read breaking headlines covering Congress, Democrats, Republicans, and more. That’s been the messaging from 2009 though, “Don’t believe the opposition, they are spreading misinformation.” ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/299 "2013-10-31T11:51:08Z")
'To claim the President lied to the American People is not the truth! He did not write the law he was told how it would work and perhaps misunderstood at best. If one were a believer in God they would accuse God of lying. First he was quoted as saying everything he created was good. Yet, later on he decided he regretted he created humans and killed all of the life on earth except one family and a few animals! I wonder if the same people would say President GW Bush lied about Iraq? He was misinformed, but look at the consequences! Many innocent people are still dying and many injured some for life! Since one cannot know the mind of either president they cannot accuse either of lying. Just one more way to spread hatred…So sad. UNITED WE STAND, Divided We Fall. It was said America would not ever be destroyed by outsiders but from within! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/300 "2013-10-31T11:57:33Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > ACA does achieve that limited objective sufficiently. Everyone is insured, so no one goes bankrupt due to medical bills. Assuming everyone gets insured, but if people choose not to, it’s on them. > > I don’t like the health care law for many reasons, but it does, or at least should, achieve the basic objectives of any UHC system. We re paying now for the uninsured. Too many use the emergency rooms and the cost is add to the ones who have insurance or use the medical facilities. Years ago I was charged $50.00 for 2 aspirins, I challenged the hospital, and the person told me it went to the cost of the non-Insured! Either way the working class pays. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534.md?page=16)