# Oops. Looks like we were lied to about Obamacare after all. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2013, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534 "2013-10-29T07:22:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/21 "2013-10-29T14:10:30Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I don’t think that’s a fair characterization. > > The law said the same plan is grandfathered. It seems obvious that if you change the plan enough it’s no longer the same plan. Regulations were needed to define the exact parameters. Nothing wrong with that. But he was in control of how narrow or broad grandfathering could be. Given the uncategorical nature of his promise, the right thing to do would have been to interpret the law as broadly as possible to allow people to keep their insurance. He’s already demonstrated willingness to alter the law to his preferences even when it wasn’t clear he had the authority to do so. In this case, he clearly had the authority to prevent this and chose not to. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/22 "2013-10-29T14:17:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But he was in control of how narrow or broad grandfathering could be. Given the uncategorical nature of his promise, the right thing to do would have been to interpret the law as broadly as possible to allow people to keep their insurance. > > He’s already demonstrated willingness to alter the law to his preferences even when it wasn’t clear he had the authority to do so. In this case, he clearly had the authority to prevent this and chose not to. Remind me how much authority the president has to draft legislation, order Congress to rewrite bills, or “alter the law to his preferences”. What’s that you say? None whatsoever? I thought as much. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/23 "2013-10-29T14:21:08Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > The question is, what can/should be done about this. I think the Republicans should shut down the government again. It worked out pretty great for them last time. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/24 "2013-10-29T14:22:06Z")
Though it pains me to say it, this is a very fair criticism of Obamacare. Let me first say that calling Obama a liar because of his statement is over the top. If the “you get to keep your insurance” statement were to be a lie, one should show that Obama knew it was wrong when he said it, for which I don’t believe there’s any credible information. But I would certainly chalk this up as a promise not fulfilled. The point raised earlier about how some insurance companies have changed the substance of their plans so significantly that they no longer qualified for grandfathering is, on the face, a decent point. However, if the President says that you get to keep your health care plan if you like it, why the fuck should the government insert itself between an insurance company and a customer to determine whether or not the customer should like the plan? I’m all for having coverage standards for new plans. But let the customer decide if he/she continues to be satisfied with the plan that they are paying for. It seems to me that the news story here should have been: Greedy health insurance companies pull another fast one to short-change customers on services while premiums continue to go up. Now the story is, the government decides that your health plan you thought you could keep no longer meets HHS regulation 13-239-A-Sigma-BS-6969-&#^$& subparagraph (a). The government should echo the eloquent apology once uttered by Rick Perry, “Oops.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/25 "2013-10-29T14:24:50Z")
> [@](#): > > But he was in control of how narrow or broad grandfathering could be. Given the uncategorical nature of his promise, the right thing to do would have been to interpret the law as broadly as possible to allow people to keep their insurance. People aren’t losing their insurance because of the law. People are losing their insurance because the insurance companies are changing their plans on them. No matter how broadly the grandfather clause of the law is interpreted, these people are still not keeping their old plans, because the insurance companies are no longer offering those plans. The _only_ way to avoid this situation would be for the government to take over all of the insurance companies. Is that really what you want? Actually, I think it is what the right wing wants. Near as I can tell, the root of most right wing objections to Obama is that they want a president who acts like an absolute dictator, and Obama isn’t doing that. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/26 "2013-10-29T14:24:58Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Now the story is, the government decides that your health plan you thought you could keep no longer meets HHS regulation 13-239-A-Sigma-BS-6969-&#^$& subparagraph (a). " The entire point here is that the government hasn’t decided any such thing. It is _the insurer_ taking the initiative to change their plan such that it is no longer the plan you had, and thus no longer qualifies for an exemption. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/27 "2013-10-29T14:25:05Z")
> [@The\_Niply\_Elder](#): > > I think it’s a good thing that there is a minimum threshold of coverage required, as the whole point of health insurance is to avoid catastrophic costs that force someone into bankruptcy. Just like the government needs to establish a minimum amount of crash worthiness of a car and test all cars on a similar footing so that consumers can make an informed decision. I would even go so far as saying that government needs to progressively increase the quality of the health policies to seal up all uncovered pitfalls. You may be correct, but it’s not what we were told, again and again and again. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/28 "2013-10-29T14:26:49Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Remind me how much authority the president has to draft legislation, order Congress to rewrite bills, or “alter the law to his preferences”. > > What’s that you say? None whatsoever? > > I thought as much. he delayed the employer mandate. He’s extending the individual mandate deadline. Writing grandfathering regulations was completely under his discretion. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/29 "2013-10-29T14:27:30Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > You may be correct, but it’s not what we were told, again and again and again. Except, [as noted above](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16800185&postcount=17), we _were_ told this. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/30 "2013-10-29T14:28:27Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Did you think Obama was saying he was going to legally obligate all insurers to never drop any plans that they were currently offering as of 2010? What people thought he was saying was, well, what he said about a bazillion times. We now see that he knew that many people would not be able to keep their plans, yet he found it helpful to outright lie countless times. There’s really no getting around that fact. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/31 "2013-10-29T14:28:32Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > he delayed the employer mandate. He’s extending the individual mandate deadline. Writing grandfathering regulations was completely under his discretion. He is able to do those things because the legislation gives the Secretary of HHS the authority to do so. Nothing in the ACA empowers Obama to “write grandfathering legislations”. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/32 "2013-10-29T14:29:18Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So it could be a situation where he wasn’t lying, but changed his mind, and then just didn’t bother to tell the public. But he _did_ bother to tell the public. From the OP’s linked article: > [@](#): > > Yet President Obama, who had promised in 2009, “if you like your health plan, you will be able to keep your health plan,” was still saying in 2012, “If [you] already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance.” So, long after the grandfather cutoff, and in full knowledge that the provisions of the ACA would necessarily cause huge numbers of people’s plans to be cancelled, he was still telling audiences that they’d be able to keep their insurance. He told the public. And what he told them was wrong - and he knew it was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/33 "2013-10-29T14:29:45Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > What people thought he was saying was… And there we get down to it - it doesn’t _matter_ what Obama actually said, the only thing that matters is how Republicans can selectively interpret it to their advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/34 "2013-10-29T14:31:05Z")
I continue to be amazed at the number of people who think we didn’t only elect Obama to be prez but also High Overlord of Insurance Companies Amalgamated. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/35 "2013-10-29T14:31:30Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Remind me how much authority the president has to draft legislation, order Congress to rewrite bills, or “alter the law to his preferences”. > > What’s that you say? None whatsoever? > > I thought as much. From the quote in the OP: > [@](#): > > But the Department of Health and Human Services then wrote regulations that narrowed that provision, by saying that if any part of a policy was significantly changed since that date – the deductible, co-pay, or benefits, for example – the policy would not be grandfathered. Emphasis added. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/36 "2013-10-29T14:31:47Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > So, long after the grandfather cutoff, and in full knowledge that the provisions of the ACA would necessarily cause huge numbers of people’s plans to be cancelled, he was still telling audiences that they’d be able to keep their insurance. > > He told the public. And what he told them was wrong - and he knew it was wrong. Nothing in the ACA requires insurers to change their plans so that they’re no longer grandfathered. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/37 "2013-10-29T14:34:14Z")
To be fair, “You can keep your insurance plan unless your insurance company dicks you by canceling the plan you already had - now, nobody’s going to make them do this, but nobody ever made bank on insurance companies not being dicks” would have been more accurate but also perhaps less marketable. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/38 "2013-10-29T14:34:19Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > From the quote in the OP: > Emphasis added. [They then went on to loosen those regulations,](http://thinkprogress.org/health/2010/11/16/171787/grandfather-update/) so that it would be even easier for plans to remain grandfathered. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/39 "2013-10-29T14:35:06Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > t seems to me that the news story here should have been: Greedy health insurance companies pull another fast one to short-change customers on services while premiums continue to go up. Now the story is, the government decides that your health plan you thought you could keep no longer meets HHS regulation 13-239-A-Sigma-BS-6969-&#^$& subparagraph (a). > > The government should echo the eloquent apology once uttered by Rick Perry, “Oops.” Why should that be the story? If people didn’t like the plans, they didn’t need to keep them. But the problem is that lots of people do seem to like the plans they have and now they can’t keep them. Not sure why the companies are being greedy by offering people what they want. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/40 "2013-10-29T14:36:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Why should that be the story? If people didn’t like the plans, they didn’t need to keep them. But the problem is that lots of people do seem to like the plans they have and now they can’t keep them. Not sure why the companies are being greedy by offering people what they want. The reason they can’t keep the plan is because the company is no longer _offering that plan_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534.md?page=3)