# Oops. Looks like we were lied to about Obamacare after all. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2013, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534 "2013-10-29T07:22:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/441 "2013-11-02T03:53:27Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > He lied, but it was for your own good. Let’s see what the voters have to say next year. I’m sure not gonna vote for him again! I would remind you that your political prognostication skills are pretty much an epic fail, as well. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/442 "2013-11-02T04:02:25Z")
I prognosticated nothing, and I’m sure he’d like to actually accomplish something in his second term. Can’t do that when no one takes you seriously. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/443 "2013-11-02T04:08:01Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I prognosticated nothing, and I’m sure he’d like to actually accomplish something in his second term. Can’t do that when no one takes you seriously. If anyone should know… ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/444 "2013-11-02T04:15:06Z")
It should be the President. Every lie knocks him down a point or two. He’s running out of wiggle room. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/445 "2013-11-02T05:41:38Z")
So, the President for Life Amendment gets held back a few weeks. Big deal. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/446 "2013-11-02T07:44:59Z")
Here’s the real scandal to me: politicians lie. It’s just what they do. What I want to know is why the journalists and bloggers who supported the law have shifted on a dime to “It’s good that all these sucky plans are being cancelled.” I would have expected the liberal journalistic community to be more honest brokers. Why did they keep up the deception for so long? Here’s Jonathon Chait: > **[Why Letting Everyone Keep Their Health-Care Plan Is a Terrible Idea](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2013/10/letting-everyone-keep-their-plan-terrible-idea.html)** > > You like your plan and want to keep it? Sorry. > [@](#): > > The health-care debate has suddenly come to focus almost obsessively on the alleged victims of Obamacare, who have lost their cheap individual insurance. Here’s Matthew Fleischer mourning the loss of his bare-bones plan in the Los Angeles Times; here’s David Frum doing the same for the Daily Beast. Mary Landrieu, a vulnerable red-state Democrat, is introducing legislation to ensure that nobody can lose their individual health-care plan. > > The idea underlying this notion, while facially appealing, is in fact misguided and morally perverse. No decent health-care reform can keep in place every currently existing private plan. Oh, now you tell us. Was this obvious to you in 2009, and if so, why didn’t you mention it to your readers then? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/447 "2013-11-02T08:04:25Z")
Ever see those ads on TV, aimed at seniors, all about the health insurance they can buy, without any background medical information or exams? What do you figure the quality of those policies might be? They’re cheap as dirt, sure. And they pay off handsomely if you are a victim of an elephant stampede during a snowstorm on the 4th of July. Other than that, you get _bupkis._ Now, if you are dumb enough to buy one, you might think you actually have insurance. And if you don’t need it, you’re gonna be real happy with it. Is that legal? Sure it is, its all part of the magic of the Free Market, blessings and peace be upon it. Think no reputable insurance company will soil their hands with that sort of dirty money? Wanna bet? The same people who give out bonuses to guys who figure out creative ways to avoid paying out for legitimate claims, you think they got scruples? Screwing sick and desperate people, those guys got ethics? So, sure, if you haven’t needed it and have the illusion of security and the illusion that you are one sharp cookie who got a great deal…yeah, you’re gonna be pissed if someone tells you it illegal, because you are an idjit who traded the cow for a magic bean. But Obama didn’t screw you. You were already being screwed. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/448 "2013-11-02T08:12:16Z")
Ah, and the only way to save us was to lie to us. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/449 "2013-11-02T12:12:01Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Its always been the Federal Government’s role to prevent people from making some bad decisions. Its ALWAYS happened. From seat belts to helmet laws or regulations on food safety to fucking slavery, the Federal Government has the right and the role to tell you to knock off your stupid shit if and when they can. Some things people willingly accept, some things they don’t, and some things we have to fight a war over but make no mistake, it has ALWAYS been their role > > What you call overreaching I call a proper regulation of out of control free markets. There happens to be much more people who agree with me than you, ergo, you have to do what the government says or go to jail. Don’t like it? Go to Somalia, no regulations there > > If you want to argue, do so not by misrepresenting actual laws or feigning outrage on a settled issue. I get that you want to pretend that the world works in the way you do and argue as if that’s the reality, but its really tiresome when people like me have to spend paragraphs pulling you into reality first before we can have a debate. > > Next time, start your post with: > > “The Federal Government has always had the right and the role to tell people they can’t make some bad decisions but THIS law goes too far because yadayadayada”. Save me some time and yourself some embarrassment I find it strange that the (or at least some) talk about the government running their lives, but are the biggest supporters to try to get laws past about what people do in their own homes. Many because it is against their beliefs, so they push social issues that agree with themselves, they seem to want the right to tell people what they can do, and then complain that the Government is running their lives because they are asked to pay their own way. They seem to be able to buy a $500.00 I Pad, nothing wrong with that, but if they can afford such things then they should be able to buy Insurance for their own health’s sake. ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/450 "2013-11-02T13:46:42Z")
Here is an [AP story](http://www.wbur.org/2009/06/19/obama-health-care-3) from **2009** pointing out the problems with Obama’s statement about keeping old health insurance plans. So why is the conservative machine making a big deal now? I have a lot of theories, including special elections and local races, but it doesn’t actually matter that much. What does matter is that maybe if certain pundits or politicians hadn’t been lying about death panels and more, they could have criticized something factual like what Obama said about not losing their plans. However, the strategy largely seems to have worked for conservatives. Now when you search Google for Obamacare lies, all the top results are the recent hullaballoo instead of the host of other lies or “not quite true” statements made over the years by those opposed to Obamacare. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/451 "2013-11-02T13:53:29Z")
I think the most parsimonious answer to why people, regardless of their political leanings btw, are making a big now is because _it is actually happening now_. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/452 "2013-11-02T14:06:30Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > They seem to be able to buy a $500.00 I Pad, nothing wrong with that, but if they can afford such things then they should be able to buy Insurance for their own health’s sake. Do we really want to go down that road? Even with after-tax dollars, the all-wise government should tell people what it should spend it on? Hell, we’ve had threads on this board where liberals defend to the death the right of people who receive taxpayer assistance to purchase junk food with the money. If we go that far, then why can’t people spend their OWN money on an Ipad instead of health insurance? It’s an unwise choice, but what is freedom if not the freedom to make unwise choices? If freedom means only to make good, government approved choices, then the word is meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/453 "2013-11-02T14:30:42Z")
Obamacare is a disaster? Shucks, looks like we’ll have to implement single payer then. _Just as planned!_ (yeah right) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/454 "2013-11-02T15:03:56Z")
> [@](#): > > …If freedom means only to make good, government approved choices, then the word is meaningless. Especially in a consumer economy like ours, where the Free Market (blessings and peace be upon it) depends so much on people buying “food” they shouldn’t eat, “news” that makes them more ignorant, and a wide and varied supply of loud, shiny crap. Freedumb. We support greedy charities that sell us pink ribbons and rifle our pockets for change. How many lives could we save if all women could afford to hustle right down to the doctor when anything seems abnormal about their boobs? I have no idea. Do you? How about insurance that doesn’t ensure much of anything but an opportunity to play Wheel of Coverage? Spin carefully, don’t hit “Bankrupt”. Or “Dead.” How many of us here personally knows somebody who has gotten a jolly good rodgering from their insurance “provider”? I know several myself. How about you? What kind of humanity is reflected in paying out handsome bonuses to people who figure out new and creative ways to deny legitimate claims? This is the sort of thing we admire, we hope only to be so lucky as to raise our children to screw their fellow citizens so they can afford _more_ loud shiny crap? Anybody here think its remotely rational to pay $20 for a Tylenol in the hospital that you can get at the Dollar Store for 3 cents? Someone tell me why that makes sense. Someone point out to me where competition is driving down prices and enhancing quality. Competition may be good for us, but collusion works for them, they sit down and reasonably negotiate divvying up the pie. And the pie is us. And they don’t give a rat’s fuck if we live or die. Hell, if they could figure out a way fo us to keep paying them after we settle in for the Dirt Nap, they would do it! You _know_ they would do it. Freedumb. Fuck _that_ shit! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/455 "2013-11-02T15:16:08Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > How about insurance that doesn’t ensure much of anything but an opportunity to play Wheel of Coverage? Spin carefully, don’t hit “Bankrupt”. Or “Dead.” How many of us here personally knows somebody who has gotten a jolly good rodgering from their insurance “provider”? I know several myself. How about you? > > What kind of humanity is reflected in paying out handsome bonuses to people who figure out new and creative ways to deny legitimate claims? This is the sort of thing we admire, we hope only to be so lucky as to raise our children to screw their fellow citizens so they can afford _more_ loud shiny crap? Anybody here think its remotely rational to pay $20 for a Tylenol in the hospital that you can get at the Dollar Store for 3 cents? Someone tell me why that makes sense. Someone point out to me where competition is driving down prices and enhancing quality. Competition may be good for us, but collusion works for them, they sit down and reasonably negotiate divvying up the pie. And the pie is us. > > And they don’t give a rat’s fuck if we live or die. Hell, if they could figure out a way fo us to keep paying them after we settle in for the Dirt Nap, they would do it! You _know_ they would do it. Freedumb. Fuck _that_ shit! Why wasn’t _that,_ and not if-you-like-your-plan-you-can-keep-it, the message? If it’s so easy to sell stuff to the folks you deride, why resort to false advertising? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/456 "2013-11-02T15:16:12Z")
Serious question #1: Will Obamacare reduce the cost of Tylenal that hospitals charge? Serious question #2: Were these evil insurance companies not at the table when this legislation was being written? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/457 "2013-11-02T15:21:59Z")
They \*own \*the fucking table. But that’s Obama’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/458 "2013-11-02T15:24:25Z")
This explains all the lies about the effects of Voter ID. Opponents are perfectly willing to lie, to claim people will be disenfranchised, in order to get legislation defeated they just KNOW is bad for the country. And I suppose it will be true about the next liberal initiative, yes? Really? Is that the correct takeaway here? Because it seems as though someone who is willing to lie about health care because the public needed the lie in order to pass it would have no reason to stop at that subject. Or is it the case that while they were willing to lie to us about one thing, there’s just no way they’d ever lie about TWO things? Everyone who’s saying, in effect, “Yes, it was a lie, but for a worthy cause,” might want to take a stab at answering why their next story should be taken at face value. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/459 "2013-11-02T15:30:51Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > They \*own \*the fucking table. More or less, and that’s one of the reasons (not the only reason) that I’m suspicious of this legislation. I’m willing to give it a chance, but I’m not ready to sing it’s praises. > [@](#): > > But that’s Obama’s fault. Your words, not mine. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/460 "2013-11-02T16:01:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > This explains all the lies about the effects of Voter ID… Nifty! Try to score points on a tangential issue by pretending relevance, and if anybody answers, you can claim a hijack! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534.md?page=24)