# Oops. Looks like we were lied to about Obamacare after all. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2013, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534 "2013-10-29T07:22:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/681 "2013-11-05T18:35:42Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The Obamaviks designed a car that would run. Not as well as any single payer plan currently in the world, but it would run. Republicans poured sand in the oil, replaced the gas with kerosene and flattened the tires. See, they say, how badly designed it was! Yet, Obama still donned the plaid suit and put on his biggest Obamaiest smile and hawked, “This is the bestest car you’ve ever seen. You will have to buy it, and you will love it. It will get twice the gas mileage and cost you less. Plus, it’ll be more luxurious and fun to drive. Trust me on this. [Twinkle]” ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/682 "2013-11-05T18:37:01Z")
Sounds like for the vast majority, [the insurance companies are responsible,](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/insurance-companies-misleading-letters-obamacare) not the ACA: > [@](#): > > Across the country, insurance companies have sent misleading letters to consumers, trying to lock them into the companies’ own, sometimes more expensive health insurance plans rather than let them shop for insurance and tax credits on the Obamacare marketplaces – which could lead to people like Donna spending thousands more for insurance than the law intended. In some cases, mentions of the marketplace in those letters are relegated to a mere footnote, which can be easily overlooked. > > The extreme lengths to which some insurance companies are going to hold on to existing customers at higher price, as the Affordable Care Act fundamentally re-orders the individual insurance market, has caught the attention of state insurance regulators. > > The insurance companies argue that it’s simply capitalism at work. But regulators don’t see it that way. By warning customers that their health insurance plans are being canceled as a result of Obamacare and urging them to secure new insurance plans before the Obamacare launched on Oct. 1, these insurers put their customers at risk of enrolling in plans that were not as good or as affordable as what they could buy on the marketplaces. So, not nearly the lying you are leading us to believe. Shame on you. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/683 "2013-11-05T18:42:23Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > So, you ventured into a thread seeking to avoid answering the questions in the OP. I can’t tell you how shocked I am. :rolleyes: No, to put back the context you’re still strenuously, even belligerently, trying to avoid, for pathetically obvious reasons. Are you going to tell us what you would actually \*do \*with your point on the scoreboard if it were to be granted? Would that come before or after you finally arse yourself to “find out what’s in it”? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/684 "2013-11-05T18:42:27Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > Please. Extra bells and whistles that people neither want nor need does not make all current plans “substandard” I find it interesting that not one person in this thread has stated that they would _want_ one of these perfectly fine, likeable, absolutely-nothing-wrong-with-them plans that people are having “taken away” from them. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/685 "2013-11-05T18:42:41Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Sounds like for the vast majority, [the insurance companies are responsible,](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/insurance-companies-misleading-letters-obamacare) not the ACA:So, not nearly the lying you are leading us to believe. Shame on you. Their bad behavior does not excuse Obama’s. Why in the world would you think it would? Shame on you. Even without their’s, we’d still have his. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/686 "2013-11-05T18:45:01Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I find it interesting that not one person in this thread has stated that they would _want_ one of these perfectly fine, likeable, absolutely-nothing-wrong-with-them plans that people are having “taken away” from them. Or would admit to us that an Obamacare policy would be better and that they’d choose it instead. Right, **John**? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/687 "2013-11-05T18:47:18Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So, not nearly the lying you are leading us to believe. Shame on you. In addition, the idea that not having the “bells and whistles” makes a plan lose it’s grandfathered status is itself also a lie: > **[FAQ: Grandfathered Health Plans - KFF Health News](https://kffhealthnews.org/news/grandfathered-plans-faq/)** > > If you get your insurance from your employer, there's a very good chance that you are in a "grandfathered plan," and that means some of the provisions of the health law do not apply to you - yet. > [@](#): > > […]For example, they are **not required to provide preventive care without cost-sharing. In addition, they do not have to offer a package of “essential health benefits” that individual and small group plans must offer beginning in 2014.** (Large employer plans are not required to offer the essential benefits package even if they are not grandfathered.) > > Furthermore, **grandfathered individual plans – the policies you purchase yourself, rather than through work – can still impose annual dollar limits, such as capping key benefits at $750,000 in a given year. Grandfathered individual policies also can still lock out children under 19 if they have a pre-existing conditions.** bolding mine ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/688 "2013-11-05T18:48:28Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I find it interesting that not one person in this thread has stated that they would _want_ one of these perfectly fine, likeable, absolutely-nothing-wrong-with-them plans that people are having “taken away” from them. Well that’s part of the thing, isn’t it? Like many conservative arguments, this one relies on the potential for a bogeyman to exist without spending much time on whether or not he actually exists. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/689 "2013-11-05T18:49:25Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > No, to put back the context you’re still strenuously, even belligerently, trying to avoid, for pathetically obvious reasons. > > Are you going to tell us what you would actually \*do \*with your point on the scoreboard if it were to be granted? I guess it doesn’t serve some grand point. It would only demonstrate that you aren’t so stubbornly and hopelessly hyper-partisan as you appear on these boards normally. So, it’s no skin off my nose. But with every obfuscation, excuse and contorted reframing, you make your brand tattoo that much more prominent. The point of you admitting the obvious is of minor interest. I have no expectation that you would or can. But I am helpful, so I figured i’d just keep handing you a new shovel. The other point of the OP is of more importance. But if you can’t get to, “Yep, good old Obama lied to us. Lied through his fucking teeth to us repeatedly”, then what to do about that fact seems outside your scope of interest. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/690 "2013-11-05T18:52:38Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Now just why do you think that is, hmm? Honestly it doesn’t matter to me one iota why it was that way. It wasn’t. Put very simply, that is a shitty piss poor way to govern (by anyone) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/691 "2013-11-05T18:59:32Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > Put very simply, that is a shitty piss poor way to govern (by anyone) So who do you hold responsible for that sorry state of affairs in regard to ACA? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/692 "2013-11-05T19:06:00Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Their bad behavior does not excuse Obama’s. Why in the world would you think it would? Shame on you. Even without their’s, we’d still have his. Most of the bad behavior you attribute to Obama is actually deliberate lying by insurance companies. Between [misrepresenting grandfathered policies,](http://m.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/04/1252957/-How-ObamaCare-Cancelled-Your-Plan-is-really-an-Insurance-Co-Scam-to-Rip-You-Off?detail=facebook) and outright lying about being forced to cancel policies, I doubt there are many legitimate policy cancellations that contradict the president. I’m sure you can find a couple and claim victory, but the vast majority of people will save money and finally get insurance which was unavailable before. This is just more right wing invention like Benghazi. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/693 "2013-11-05T19:08:23Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I find it interesting that not one person in this thread has stated that they would _want_ one of these perfectly fine, likeable, absolutely-nothing-wrong-with-them plans that people are having “taken away” from them. I want the one that is being canceled from under me. From what I saw in my searches on Maryland exchange, to replace it from the exchange I would have to pay higher premiums, have a higher deductible, higher out of pocket maximums, and have a drastically reduced choice of doctors. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/694 "2013-11-05T19:17:03Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > So who do you hold responsible for that sorry state of affairs in regard to ACA? It’s easy to assign responsibility for one sorry aspect of this - give it to Obama and the White House for their lies. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/695 "2013-11-05T19:19:30Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > No, to put back the context you’re still strenuously, even belligerently, trying to avoid What context is implied by the the emphatic insertion of “Period.” after “If you like your health plan you can keep it.” ? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/696 "2013-11-05T19:20:15Z")
I was referring to Kearsen’s lament that ACA had no support from the Republicans. Why do \*you \*suppose that is? And would you \*really \*like to explore the strenuous campaign of lies about ACA they were and are continuing to tell? Context does matter, like it or not. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/697 "2013-11-05T19:22:56Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I want the one that is being canceled from under me. From what I saw in my searches on Maryland exchange, to replace it from the exchange I would have to pay higher premiums, have a higher deductible, higher out of pocket maximums, and have a drastically reduced choice of doctors. The false claims pushed by Fox have made me dubious about such claims. Can you provide details supporting your claim? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/698 "2013-11-05T19:29:34Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > The false claims pushed by Fox have made me dubious about such claims. Can you provide details supporting your claim? Not without providing too many personal details. Feel free to disbelieve me. Your problem. On edit: maybe I can. I will post current policy’s specs. You can tell me which Maryland exchange’s policy is better. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/699 "2013-11-05T19:30:57Z")
Even Fox itself (Greta van Susteren) had enough and debunked [this anecdote.](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/04/1253038/-Obamacare-rate-shock-victim-changes-her-mind-calls-the-law-a-blessing-in-disguise?detail=facebook) ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/700 "2013-11-05T19:39:06Z")
My current policy (that is being canceled due to Obamacare), in Maryland: 2 parents, 2 kids. Premium: $890 Deductible: $5.2K per family, $2.6K per person. OOP max: $4.6K per person, $9.2K per family Lifetime max: $2M Drugs: $15 generic, $35 preferred brand, $75 non-preferred brand (subject to deductible and max OOP) Physician visits and hospitalizations, labs, outpatient surgery, basically everything: 20% in network, 40% out The network basically includes everyone. I have yet to find a physician or a hospital that is out of network. NOTHING on Maryland’s Obamacare exchange even comes close. And every participating company’s networks are tiny and don’t include half my doctors. Tell me again how I am so much better off under Obamacare. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534.md?page=36)