# Oops. Looks like we were lied to about Obamacare after all. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2013, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534 "2013-10-29T07:22:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/701 "2013-11-05T19:45:35Z")
Why is it being cancelled because of Obamacare? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/702 "2013-11-05T19:46:40Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Why is it being cancelled because of Obamacare? That’s what the insurance company tells me. It is being canceled, due to Obamacare regulations and legal requirements, and they tell me to go look on the Exchange. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/703 "2013-11-05T19:52:00Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Or would admit to us that an Obamacare policy would be better and that they’d choose it instead. Right, **John**? :dubious: If you’re talking to me, then define “better”. If it’s got equal or better benefits, with no increase in cost and I can still use my existing doctor and hospital, sure. So far you haven’t told me that. You only told me the benefits would be better. I’ve got a car for sale that is better than your current car. Why don’t you want it? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/704 "2013-11-05T19:58:10Z")
So, Hentor, would you say Obama lied to me when he said I could keep my policy if I liked, it, PERIOD, NO MATTER WHAT or not? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/705 "2013-11-05T19:59:11Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > That’s what the insurance company tells me. It is being canceled, due to Obamacare regulations and legal requirements, and they tell me to go look on the Exchange. Did you check to see they weren’t lying to you? It is a possibility, no? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/706 "2013-11-05T20:01:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Did you check to see they weren’t lying to you? It is a possibility, no? Exactly how do you propose I check it? I had this policy for the last 5 years (I am sure they had it much longer than that). Do you think they decided to cancel it just for the hell of it, and it is just a coincidence that the end of the policy coincides with when Obamacare law is kicking in? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/707 "2013-11-05T20:02:28Z")
Read? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/708 "2013-11-05T20:02:52Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Exactly how do you propose I check it? Call them and ask what provision of the law made them change it, if they didn’t give an specifics in the letter. > [@](#): > > Do you think they decided to cancel it just for the hell of it, and it is just a coincidence that the end of the policy coincides with when Obamacare law is kicking in? No, I think they may have done so in order to get you to buy a more expensive policy. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/709 "2013-11-05T20:04:03Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Sounds like for the vast majority, [the insurance companies are responsible,](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/insurance-companies-misleading-letters-obamacare) not the ACA:So, not nearly the lying you are leading us to believe. Shame on you. If you are referring to my post you are arguing a completely different point. The administration deliberately wrote regulations concerning the grandfather clause to make the number of plans that could be grandfathered very narrow. That was by design and was known by the President while he was out there saying that we could keep our plans. Period. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/710 "2013-11-05T20:05:55Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Do you think they decided to cancel it just for the hell of it, and it is just a coincidence that the end of the policy coincides with when Obamacare law is kicking in? Not for the hell of it, but to cut their costs, using Obamacare as a useful pretext, made especially useful by the cloud of lies that covers it, lies told by the likes of themselves. So, if this policy is employer-provided, why aren’t they providing something better? And, if they aren’t going to, doesn’t that give you the incentive as well as the freedom to go find a better \*employer \*as well as a better health plan? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/711 "2013-11-05T20:08:11Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Sounds like for the vast majority, [the insurance companies are responsible,](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/insurance-companies-misleading-letters-obamacare) not the ACA:So, not nearly the lying you are leading us to believe. Shame on you. Wait a minute. I’m not finding that all that convincing, or relevant. The insurance companies aren’t preventing people for shopping on the exchanges. Why should they tell their customers that a competitor might have a better plan for them? When I go shopping for a car, I don’t expect the Honda dealer to tell me that the Toyota dealer has a better car for my needs. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/712 "2013-11-05T20:12:28Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Call them and ask what provision of the law made them change it, if they didn’t give an specifics in the letter. They won’t tell me. Definitely not the call center person I call. > [@](#): > > No, I think they may have done so in order to get you to buy a more expensive policy. They didn’t offer me any more expensive policies. They told me to go to the exchange. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/713 "2013-11-05T20:14:32Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Not for the hell of it, but to cut their costs, using Obamacare as a useful pretext, made especially useful by the cloud of lies that covers it, lies told by the likes of themselves. That’s moronic. They ran this policy for at least 5 years (probably much longer) while what - losing money? And they NOW decided to cancel it to “cut their costs” when they could cancel it at any time before, without any pretexts? > [@](#): > > So, if this policy is employer-provided, why aren’t they providing something better? And, if they aren’t going to, doesn’t that give you the incentive as well as the freedom to go find a better \*employer \*as well as a better health plan? It is not employer-provided. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/714 "2013-11-05T20:16:25Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Why is it being cancelled because of Obamacare? I can’t answer for Terr but I can answer for mine - actually my son’s. Under ACA, all health insurance needs to have dental attached to it if you are under 18. My son’s did not since I have him on another dental plan. So his was cancelled and replaced with one that is $20 more expensive per month and a couple thousand more dollars for the out of pocket annual max so that he will have a dental plan he doesn’t need. So yes, there is one data point for a policy being cancelled because of ACA. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/715 "2013-11-05T20:17:55Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > If you are referring to my post… I’m not. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/716 "2013-11-05T20:19:00Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I can’t answer for Terr but I can answer for mine - actually my son’s. Under ACA, all health insurance needs to have dental attached to it if you are under 18. My son’s did not since I have him on another dental plan. So his was cancelled and replaced with one that is $20 more expensive per month and a couple thousand more dollars for the out of pocket annual max so that he will have a dental plan he doesn’t need. > > So yes, there is one data point for a policy being cancelled because of ACA. Could be the reason for the canceling of mine - it didn’t have any dental benefits, for kids or adults. And I liked it that way. The extra couple of hundred $ at most that they would kick in towards that certainly doesn’t justify the multiple thousands more in deductibles and out of pocket expenses in the exchange policies. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/717 "2013-11-05T20:22:13Z")
The administration knew that a ton of plans on the individual market would lose grandfathered status and stated as much in the [Federal Register](http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2010-06-17/pdf/2010-14488.pdf) in 2010. On top of that they also admitted that almost half of large employer based plans would lose grandfathered status. This was the plan from the beginning. > [@Federal Register June 17](#): > > Under this assumption, the > Departments’ mid-range estimate is that > 66 percent of small employer plans and > 45 percent of large employer plans will > relinquish their grandfather status by > the end of 2013. The low-end estimates > are for 49 percent and 34 percent of > small and large employer plans, > respectively, to have relinquished > grandfather status, and the high-end > estimates are 80 percent and 64 percent, > respectively. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/718 "2013-11-05T20:25:33Z")
Did you read the rest of that Fed. Reg. entry? Because it pretty much demolishes your point. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/719 "2013-11-05T20:28:42Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Did you read the rest of that Fed. Reg. entry? Because it pretty much demolishes your point. What page? I couldn’t find it, but the document was so many pages I gave up pretty quickly. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/720 "2013-11-05T20:29:48Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Did you read the rest of that Fed. Reg. entry? Because it pretty much demolishes your point. Feel free to point out anything that demolishes my point…or should I take your word? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534.md?page=37)