# Oops. Looks like we were lied to about Obamacare after all. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2013, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534 "2013-10-29T07:22:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 59
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1161 "2013-11-12T16:13:05Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > If only Obama had said “Some of you have plans that are pieces of shit. Even if you think you’re happy with that piece of shit, you won’t be able to keep it. For those of you that have plans that actually cover shit, you can keep them as long as they were in place before the cutoff date. For those that had a piece of shit plan, going to a plan that actually covers shit will be more expensive. Does that surprise you? It shouldn’t. Now some of you are going to discover that getting a plan that covers shit will be more expensive. And you’re going to run to a lazy journalist who is going to cover this like it’s a big fucking scandal. What you’re going to discover if you take the fucking time to investigate this is that you may qualify for a subsidy and the increase may not be that great, and many of you are going to wind up with real insurance for less money than you currently pay for your piece of shit. In any event, you won’t be out in the cold if you find yourself in need, and you won’t wind up at the ER making the rest of us pay for your sorry ass. Some people call this socialism. Those people don’t know shit, they said the same thing about Social Security and Medicare when they first came out. So chill the fuck out and give it a chance.” This is another Big Lie being repeated by those who oh so dearly want to believe Uncle Barry would never tell a lie. I can’t speak for everyone, but I do NOT currently have a shitty insurance plan. It pays for annual checkups, flu vaccinations and other preventative care. It covers ER visits. It includes prescription drugs. It has no lifetime limit on benefits. I am happy with my plan, and want to keep it, which is what my president told me I could do. Over and over again. But I can’t, and he knew it. He lied. Simple as that. And for the record, Social Security and Medicare might not be socialism, but they are welfare - transferring wealth and income from one segment to another. I wouldn’t point to either as proof of affordable, sustainable or efficient government programs. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1162 "2013-11-12T16:13:47Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > If only Obama had said Yes, if only he hadn’t lied. Do you feel the need to rush into other threads and post what folks who engaged in false advertising should have said instead? Would you stick up for private-citizen fraudsters who engage in plainspoken dishonesty, or just figure they should be fined and jailed? ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1163 "2013-11-12T16:17:22Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Clearly you have exhausted all options. What do you suggest? I looked on the government’s website as well as a couple of other privately-run websites (valuepenguin and einsurance) and ALL available plans cost significantly more than what I pay now, even the crappy ‘bronze’ plans that have a large family deductible and THEN only pay 60% of medical bills until you hit a $12,700 family deductible. I have a grand total of three insurance companies to choose from. How exhaustive can I be? ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1164 "2013-11-12T16:29:05Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > And why is that Obama’s fault? Because your insurance company found a convenient excuse to raise your rates, and you fell for it? Pish. I don’t see how this is possible under the ACA and the 80% rule. Are you contending that his insurance company was taking a bath on his old policy? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1165 "2013-11-12T16:33:00Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Yes, if only he hadn’t lied. Do you feel the need to rush into other threads and post what folks who engaged in false advertising should have said instead? Would you stick up for private-citizen fraudsters who engage in plainspoken dishonesty, or just figure they should be fined and jailed? Obama has shown a marked inability to defend the ACA. The horror stories of massive rate increases, happily passed along as truth by those committing journalistic malpractice, are for the most park complete hogwash. Obama has been a beacon of truth compared to serial liars like Sarah Death Panels Palin, Sean Hannity, and the like. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1166 "2013-11-12T16:36:04Z")
I’m wondering, did you find exactly what you expected to find? Was this a surprise? Reason I ask is that you present yourself as a adherent to the Contrarian political persuasion, they all suck and no good can come of any of this. Like all political persuasions, the contrarian position can make you vulnerable to confirmation bias, it is nearly universal amongst the naveled. Oh, and welcome aboard. We welcome all stripes of political persuasion, even the Contrarian. The main difference is that most of us grouse and bitch in a more focused manner, but I do not suggest that this makes us more accurate or worthy, merely more selective. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1167 "2013-11-12T16:37:53Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > I am happy with my plan, and want to keep it, which is what my president told me I could do. Over and over again. But I can’t, and he knew it. Did the president cancel your policy or did your insurer? Again, a less clumsy wording would have been “if you’re happy with your plan AND it conforms to the ACA AND your insurer keeps offering it, you can keep it.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1168 "2013-11-12T16:46:56Z")
As the estimable Jon Stewart noted: in the Republican offering, if you don’t currently have a doctor, you can keep on not having the doctor you already don’t have. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1169 "2013-11-12T16:53:34Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > As the estimable Jon Stewart noted: in the Republican offering, if you don’t currently have a doctor, you can keep on not having the doctor you already don’t have. And you can keep going to the emergency room for a sprained ankle, and someone else will keep paying the bill for you. Boy, it must be grueling trying to defend Owebama. Getting harder as the days go on, too. Oh, and Jon Stewart is an ass, and hasn’t been funny for years. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1170 "2013-11-12T16:55:21Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Obama has shown a Obama has been a beacon of truth compared to serial liars like Sarah Death Panels Palin, Sean Hannity, and the like. And you’ll presumably still be plugging away for the guy if ‘death panels’ ever are the order of the day: _what he should have said,_ you’ll opine, _is that of course there are death panels; there’s always a point where there’s not enough to go around, and hard choices have to be made instead of just doing everything possible to keep you alive; it’s obvious to anyone with half a brain; chill the fuck out; privately-run death panels that were a lot worse are being replaced by governmental ones that are a lot better; beacon of truth for the win, y’all._ ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1171 "2013-11-12T16:55:46Z")
You can keep on paying **elucidator** ’s medical bills if you like. Fine with me. Probably fine with him, too. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1172 "2013-11-12T16:55:58Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > a less clumsy wording would have been “if you’re happy with your plan **AND it conforms to the ACA AND your insurer keeps offering it, you can keep it**.” For values of “clumsy” that include “dishonest”. Obama simply replaced the words in bold with “ **Period**.” But I’m sure you’re right that this is the meaning that single word was meant to convey. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1173 "2013-11-12T17:12:02Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You can keep on paying **elucidator** ’s medical bills if you like. Fine with me. Probably fine with him, too. That’s the liberal way. Be free and generous with someone else’s money. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1174 "2013-11-12T17:14:03Z")
It’s YOUR offer. Are you trying to be coherent, or just snarky? ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1175 "2013-11-12T17:20:29Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It’s YOUR offer. > > Are you trying to be coherent, or just snarky? Mostly snarky, because there is no serious way to discuss whether or not the president was lying. He was. There is absolutely no doubt about that. Posting what he “shoulda, coulda, woulda said” if he were inclined to tell the truth is disingenuous and speculative. If you want to discuss health care, how it should be provided and who pays for it, then start a new thread about that. I may join in and offer my thoughts. And what do you mean it’s MY offer? What did I offer? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1176 "2013-11-12T18:50:06Z")
I don’t get what you’re saying BobLibDem. Are you agreeing that Obama lied and should have said those things or are you saying that when he said I could keep my plan, he really meant - and I should have known he meant - all that stuff you said? I’m also curious about your take on my situation. My son’s plan was cancelled due to the requirement for dental under ACA and so his piece of shit plan went from No dental (not needed since I have separate dental for him) Low annual out of pocket $110/month to the apparently better plan of Dental (not needed since I have separate dental for him) A couple thousand more in annual out-of-pocket limit $130/month ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1177 "2013-11-12T18:58:07Z")
I get the complaints about burdens placed on grandfathered plans, but I really don’t understand the complaints about plans like **Saint Cad** ’s son’s that were purchased for the first time recently. Why does the cancellation of a non-compliant plan purchased after 2010–at a time when the insurer (and the insured, if they had looked) _knew_ that it would be non-compliant–contradict Obama’s “Keep Your Plan” rhetoric? Additionally, since the insurer knew that such plans were non-compliant when issued, shouldn’t they have warned people that the coverage would be cancelled imminently? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1178 "2013-11-12T18:59:23Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I don’t get what you’re saying BobLibDem. Are you agreeing that Obama lied and should have said those things or are you saying that when he said I could keep my plan, he really meant - and I should have known he meant - all that stuff you said? > > I’m also curious about your take on my situation. My son’s plan was cancelled due to the requirement for dental under ACA and so his piece of shit plan went from > No dental (not needed since I have separate dental for him) > Low annual out of pocket > $110/month > to the apparently better plan of > Dental (not needed since I have separate dental for him) > A couple thousand more in annual out-of-pocket limit > $130/month Why don’t you just cancel the other dental you have, save money on that policy, and then everything will even out by the fact that its added to this policy, right? Or do you just want to pay twice for dental so you have something to slam Obama with? Your problem seems very far from unsolvable. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1179 "2013-11-12T19:03:04Z")
What I’m saying is that a ton of people have junk insurance and those people weren’t truly insured, thus if their policies could not be renewed they aren’t getting screwed by the plan. So I believe that Obama didn’t mean to include them in the “if you’re happy with your insurance” statement since if they had any brains, they wouldn’t be happy. Those that had their compliant insurance by the cutoff date do indeed get to keep it, so the statement is true. You have to look at things through anti-Obama lenses to make it out to be a lie. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1180 "2013-11-12T19:05:08Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I get the complaints about burdens placed on grandfathered plans, but I really don’t understand the complaints about plans like **Saint Cad** ’s son’s that were purchased for the first time recently. > > Why does the cancellation of a non-compliant plan purchased after 2010–at a time when the insurer (and the insured, if they had looked) _knew_ that it would be non-compliant–contradict Obama’s “Keep Your Plan” rhetoric? > > Additionally, since the insurer knew that such plans were non-compliant when issued, shouldn’t they have warned people that the coverage would be cancelled imminently? Look at BobLibDem’s vitriol. The issue was not whether or not my son’s plan could be grandfathered in, but rather that not every plan that people are losing are “piece of shit” plans that are made wonderful by ACA. My son’s plan was pretty good and was “improved” by adding a ACA required element I don’t even need and now makes the plan more expensive. I’m not sure if BLD will acknowledge that as an unintended consequence or if he honestly believes the new ACA-compliant plan is better and if so worth the extra costs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534.md?page=58) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534.md?page=60)