# Oops. Looks like we were lied to about Obamacare after all. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2013, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534 "2013-10-29T07:22:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 60
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1181 "2013-11-12T19:07:21Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Look at BobLibDem’s vitriol. The issue was not whether or not my son’s plan could be grandfathered in, but rather that not every plan that people are losing are “piece of shit” plans that are made wonderful by ACA. My son’s plan was pretty good and was “improved” by adding a ACA required element I don’t even need and now makes the plan more expensive. I’m not sure if BLD will acknowledge that as an unintended consequence or if he honestly believes the new ACA-compliant plan is better and if so worth the extra costs. I agree. Not all of the now-illegal plans were some kind of scam on the unwary. People just have different priorities and resources in a free society. It just reminded me of the question that is still hanging around in the back of my mind; I didn’t mean it as some kind of counter-argument to your post. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1182 "2013-11-12T19:10:13Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Why don’t you just cancel the other dental you have, save money on that policy, and then everything will even out by the fact that its added to this policy, right? Or do you just want to pay twice for dental so you have something to slam Obama with? Your problem seems very far from unsolvable. Because for the same money of $20/month, I’d rather keep my dental only plan than Kaiser Dental. But apparently I don’t have a choice of a separate dental plan replacing that on the ACA-compliant plan unless I purchase both on the exchange. And for full disclosure, the person at Kaiser assumed I couldn’t get a non-dental-included plan for someone under 19. I’m still following up on this. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1183 "2013-11-12T19:14:09Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > What I’m saying is that a ton of people have junk insurance and those people weren’t truly insured, thus if their policies could not be renewed they aren’t getting screwed by the plan. So I believe that Obama didn’t mean to include them in the “if you’re happy with your insurance” statement since if they had any brains, they wouldn’t be happy. Those that had their compliant insurance by the cutoff date do indeed get to keep it, so the statement is true. You have to look at things through anti-Obama lenses to make it out to be a lie. So, he should have said “If _I’m_ hapy with your plan, you get to keep it.” Because he knows so much better what people should want. If they had any brains, that is. Sheesh. This is getting close to parody, **BobLibDem**. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1184 "2013-11-12T19:21:15Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > So, he should have said “If _I’m_ hapy with your plan, you get to keep it.” Because he knows so much better what people should want. If they had any brains, that is. > > Sheesh. This is getting close to parody, **BobLibDem**. No, really. There was a woman trotted out on television as a horror story as to the eeeevil increase she would see under Obamacare. So a reporter for the LA Times called her up and went over the details. She had junk insurance that didn’t pay for hospitalization, of all things. The reporter sat down with her and went over her options. With her income, she qualified for subsidies that allowed her to buy real insurance with a hospitalization plan for less than she was paying for junk. The news media loves a scandal no matter who’s in office, so they’re putting people on camera to shock and outrage us without so much as a cursory check of the facts of their story. Once again, there is no lie. If you had an acceptable plan before the cutoff, you get to keep it. It isn’t Obama’s fault if the insurer backs out. No scandal here, move right along. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1185 "2013-11-12T19:22:56Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I get the complaints about burdens placed on grandfathered plans, but I really don’t understand the complaints about plans like **Saint Cad** ’s son’s that were purchased for the first time recently. > > Why does the cancellation of a non-compliant plan purchased after 2010–at a time when the insurer (and the insured, if they had looked) _knew_ that it would be non-compliant–contradict Obama’s “Keep Your Plan” rhetoric? I think it is because my old policy should have been compliant considering I had separate dental coverage which I would think is very common but apparently not accounted for under PPACA. Second, even if we allow that it was a poorly written law that forces me to have a single health/dental care policy, my policy got worse under ACA because of the higher out-of-pocket expenses. Yes my situation is that the plan was not eligible for being grandfathered and so it was cancelled. But why was a pretty good plan cancelled and made worse by Kaiser? ACA. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1186 "2013-11-12T19:44:39Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I think it is because my old policy should have been compliant considering I had separate dental coverage which I would think is very common but apparently not accounted for under PPACA. The point I’m trying to make concerns two categories of policies: (A) policies issued prior to March 2010; (B) policies issued after March 2010. For (A), such policies do not have to add dental to be ACA complaint. For (B), the issuers of such policies knew they were non-compliant _when issued_. (Now, there are requirements put on (A) policies (like no lifetime limits), which may well have contributed to cancellation. I think these requirements were made pretty clear during the ACA sales pitch, but I get why people feel misled. What I don’t get is why people would feel misled with respect to (B) policies. And if they do, why that blame isn’t equally heaped on insurers who knew such policies would only be valid for a year or two.) ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1187 "2013-11-12T20:15:19Z")
Here’s an article in NYT that is relevant: **Daring to Complain About Obamacare** > **[Opinion | Daring to Complain About Obamacare (Published 2013)](https://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/11/opinion/daring-to-complain-about-obamacare.html?ref=opinion&_r=1&)** > > Has Obamacare made it un-P.C. to be concerned by a serious burden on a middle-class family’s well-being? The author finds out that if she dares to complain that Obamacare costs her an extra $5K+, her friends scold her. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1188 "2013-11-12T20:21:10Z")
That is TOTALLY Obama’s fault, too! ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1189 "2013-11-12T20:21:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That is TOTALLY Obama’s fault, too! Just illustrates the left’s hive mentality. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1190 "2013-11-12T20:25:35Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Now, there are requirements put on (A) policies (like no lifetime limits), which may well have contributed to cancellation. I think these requirements were made pretty clear during the ACA sales pitch, but I get why people feel misled. What I don’t get is why people would feel misled with respect to (B) policies. And if they do, why that blame isn’t equally heaped on insurers who knew such policies would only be valid for a year or two. Big-hearted guy that I am, I’ll even-handedly heap equal blame on any (B)-policy insurer who said \*if you like your plan, you can keep it, period \* ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1191 "2013-11-12T20:27:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Here’s an article in NYT that is relevant: > > Daring to Complain About Obamacare > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/11/op](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/11/op)…=opinion&\_r=1& > > The author finds out that if she dares to complain that Obamacare costs her an extra $5K+, her friends scold her. Well, sure. It’s an expected outcome of the class warfare that Obama has been waging for years. How dare you complain you will be spending $5,000 more for health insurance. And how dare you complain about the government stealing tax dollars from “rich people” (said with the requisite sneer) to pay for the subsidies handed to all of the noble, deserving folk. In my case, I don’t get scolded, I get uncomprehending stares from my friends who work for the government or corporations and have no idea what health insurance really costs. Most pay just a tiny fraction of what the policies cost their employers. The response from other self-employed people and business owners is universal, though - anger, resentment and frustration. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1192 "2013-11-12T20:27:53Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Big-hearted guy that I am, I’ll even-handedly heap equal blame on any (B)-policy insurer who said \*if you like your plan, you can keep it, period \* Do I take this sarcasm to mean you don’t think they had any responsibility to say that they were knowingly issuing plans they would have to cancel in a year or two? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1193 "2013-11-12T20:29:12Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Here’s an article in NYT that is relevant: > > **Daring to Complain About Obamacare** > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/11/opinion/daring-to-complain-about-obamacare.html?ref=opinion&\_r=1&](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/11/opinion/daring-to-complain-about-obamacare.html?ref=opinion&_r=1&) > > The author finds out that if she dares to complain that Obamacare costs her an extra $5K+, her friends scold her. OMG someone posted something political on facebook and wasn’t happy with the feedback she got? I am shocked I say, shocked! This is surely the final nail in the Obamacare coffin, right? Who knew a facebook comment thread would be the tipping point sending the whole thing down the drain? Seriously though, this isn’t an article. This is an op-ed. An opinion piece. What, exactly, is this link supposed to show us other than one persons personal anecdote? What does this add to the discussion? Just showing that some random person doesn’t like the ACA and apparently doesn’t understand how facebook works. What else are we supposed to take away from this? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1194 "2013-11-12T20:32:38Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Just illustrates the left’s hive mentality. So somebody thought her facebook friends were rude to her in a political conversation and that says something about ‘the left’? Are you for real? You do realize this is about _facebook_ right? You are trying to make some grand point about everyone on ‘the left’ based on some random people’s behavior on facebook? I have a hard time taking this seriously. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1195 "2013-11-12T20:32:53Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Just illustrates the left’s hive mentality. No, it show’s how political groups tend to dis outsiders. Most political groups do this, across the spectrum. And on the internet? Sheesh, that’s not even a bump in the road. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1196 "2013-11-12T20:37:59Z")
The ad hoc explanation that the plans are only getting cancelled because they are shitty will be debunked the day unions find out that their plans are “inadequate” and will have to cover more, thus raising their price. And then getting the luxury tax slapped on them as well. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1197 "2013-11-12T20:51:54Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Do I take this sarcasm to mean you don’t think they had any responsibility to say that they were knowingly issuing plans they would have to cancel in a year or two? That wasn’t sarcasm; it’s sincerity. You asked why the blame isn’t being equally heaped on the insurers, and I honestly replied – in perfect seriousness – that I _ **would,** _ in fact, heap said amount of blame on anyone else who likewise flatly lied about the stuff in question. Were there a “genuineness” smiley, I’d use it. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1198 "2013-11-12T20:56:20Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > Well, sure. It’s an expected outcome of the class warfare that Obama has been waging for years. Just curious, who do you think is winning the class war? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1199 "2013-11-12T21:04:02Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Just illustrates the left’s hive mentality. Assuming she’s telling the whole truth and had no other, better options, I think it sucks that her premium went up that much. Did I just kick over the hive? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1200 "2013-11-12T21:11:43Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > That wasn’t sarcasm; it’s sincerity. You asked why the blame isn’t being equally heaped on the insurers, and I honestly replied – in perfect seriousness – that I _ **would,** _ in fact, heap said amount of blame on anyone else who likewise flatly lied about the stuff in question. Were there a “genuineness” smiley, I’d use it. Ok. But I’m not suggesting the insurers broke a promise. I’m suggesting that since they knew these plans would be cancelled and didn’t say anything, they bear some of the blame for people feeling like plans are being taken away from them. Obviously, it would have been a bit harder to sell plans that they disclosed would have to be cancelled in a year or two because the plan was non-compliant, but this would have given such people notice that they had purchased a plan that was temporary–obviously, many such people were unaware of that fact. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534.md?page=59) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534.md?page=61)