# Oops. Looks like we were lied to about Obamacare after all. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2013, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534 "2013-10-29T07:22:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 65
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1281 "2013-11-14T23:44:41Z")
Obama announces his new plan: If you like your plan, you can keep it (for one year). Seems silly to put us through this again next year. Of course, that also assumes the Insurance Companies agree to bring back your cancelled plan. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1282 "2013-11-14T23:47:55Z")
> [@](#): > > …they see that it works all over the world. _This_ world, right? Challenged, you’re not going to claim you were talking about Mars? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1283 "2013-11-14T23:50:24Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I’ll bet there are about 45 million people in America who would disagree with that. Yeah, but they’re poors, so they don’t count. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1284 "2013-11-14T23:55:17Z")
They are the minority, so they count less than the majority. Believe it or not, the minority cannot impose a huge change on the majority without its consent, no matter how much morality they browbeat them with. Of course, no emotional blackmail was used. Instead, your side convinced the majority that nothing would change for them, that they would even benefit. So you lost all moral standing to thump your Bible or whatever moral gobbledygook you believe in at us. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1285 "2013-11-15T00:00:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > They are the minority, so they count less than the majority. > > Believe it or not, the minority cannot impose a huge change on the majority without its consent, no matter how much morality they browbeat them with. > > Of course, no emotional blackmail was used. Instead, your side convinced the majority that nothing would change for them, that they would even benefit. So you lost all moral standing to thump your Bible or whatever moral gobbledygook you believe in at us. Blahblahblah. I don’t even know why I waste my time and energy reading your posts, to tell the truth. Not a single one has ever actually been accurate or correct. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1286 "2013-11-15T00:05:30Z")
Nice way of evading the argument. The fact is, the President lied. Many of his supporters happily joined in the lie. Shifting ground to “It’s the right thing to do even though it means sacrifice for the middle class” is BS. No way around it. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1287 "2013-11-15T00:22:01Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Nice way of evading the argument. The fact is, the President lied. Many of his supporters happily joined in the lie. Shifting ground to “It’s the right thing to do even though it means sacrifice for the middle class” is BS. No way around it. Do you think he should resign? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1288 "2013-11-15T01:12:30Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Do you think he should resign? This question wasn’t directed to me but I will answer it anyway. He should not resign. He should fix what he started to the best of his limited ability in the relatively little time he has left. Americans in general (or at least a significant subset of us) need to learn some hard lessons about this failure (it isn’t about a website, that is just the bell on the Titanic) and learn not to vote for people clearly unqualified for their positions in terms of leadership or experience in general. That applies to both Democrats and Republicans. American voters need to grow up, smarten up and ask more questions from our supposed leaders. That is the only way a Democratic Republic can work and it is most certainly not working right now. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1289 "2013-11-15T01:23:16Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Do you think he should resign? Of course not. There’s nothing particularly remarkable about this dishonesty. It’s certainly not criminal. No, Obama will pay for this the way Bush did. He’s a lame duck. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1290 "2013-11-15T02:31:19Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I have no idea how many times this is not the case, how many times these things are done for no better purpose but to pad the profit margin for investors and stockholders. A lot of Americans, when they hear their loved ones have a serious diagnosis, they think that the doc should have tested more to find it earlier. In real life, I hear more complaints about docs ignoring symptoms than complaints that the MRI they just took their elderly parent to was a complete waste of time. I tell my family doc to err on the side of giving me fewer tests and fewer specialist consults, and she listens. But I wonder if most Americans with good health insurance are saying that. I’m not posting this one to shoot you down. I’m sure that financial incentives are a big factor, maybe the biggest. Perhaps the financial incentives have gotten everyone who has good insurance, as well as the medical system, used to an intensity of care that won’t be sustainable as the ratio of elderly to working-age Americans increases. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Obama announces his new plan: If you like your plan, you can keep it (for one year). Seems silly to put us through this again next year. Of course, that also assumes the Insurance Companies agree to bring back your cancelled plan. Administratively, it will be difficult. If they can pick and choose to just invite back the healthy, without blowback, it might be worth the hassle. Hopefully they will fear the bad publicity resurrecting pre-existing condition exclusions will bring, and not bother. See: > **[Want to Win the Midterms? Then Leave Obamacare As-Is.](https://newrepublic.com/article/115599/obamacare-fixes-cancelled-plans-may-hurt-democrats-later)** > > Attention, scared liberals: Resisting pressure to tweak the law now is in your political interest later. Here's why. and > **[Three Keys to the Obamacare Tweaks Announced Thursday](https://newrepublic.com/article/115598/obama-and-obamacare-president-proposes-fix-plan-cancellations)** > > President Obama on Thursday announced a new administration initiative designed to help that small portion of Americans whose insurers are cancelling existing policies.It’s not clear how much impact it will actually have, which means many (and... ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1291 "2013-11-15T03:28:06Z")
**Philly** , your points are well taken, but I was mostly focusing on the practice of rescinding legitimate policies by exaggerating pre-existing conditions. Like Kayser Sozay said, success in a criminal enterprise depends not so much on numbers and guns, but being willing to do whatever it takes, be willing to do what the other guy will not. Same as Colonel Kurtz of _Apocalypse Now_, when he speaks admiringly of the utter ruthlessness of a Viet Cong commander. People who will not shrink from this sort of behavior, who will subject another human being to bankruptcy on top of physical suffering to get a bonus from his approving superiors, and those superiors, are functional sociopaths. They put on a nice suit, a tasteful tie, and prey upon the weak. We don’t admire people who beat somebody up and take their money, why do we admire people who outsmart somebody and take their money? Would you rather be sick and bankrupt or have your nose broke? Having taken the measure of their humanity and their civic virtue relative to their fellow Americans, tell me why we should trust them? Why we should favor them with our concern that they not be unfairly burdened? Why should we place the health of our neighbors in such hands? How can we trust a word they say? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1292 "2013-11-15T04:45:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Obama announces his new plan: If you like your plan, you can keep it (for one year). Seems silly to put us through this again next year. Of course, that also assumes the Insurance Companies agree to bring back your cancelled plan. How have you determined that there will be the same magnitude of problems in one year as is being established in the early days of startup? If you have no way of establishing that next year’s November problems will be identical to this years November with regard to people transitioning in the private market from the status quo to the ACA, then why would you think this is silly if it helps in the transition and improves over the next twelve months? It is not a matter of assuming the Insurance Companies agree to bring back the canceled plan. It is a matter that the Insurance Companies and conservatives now cannot blame the ACA for raising rates and cancelations and deductible changes. It is a way to distinguish on the record any attempts at Insurance Company price-gouging during the transition to the ACA. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1293 "2013-11-15T07:26:22Z")
I don’t think he lied about this, it’s just that I never heard him mention it, though he may have. Otherwise, we can consider it a lie of omission :D: Evidently there’s a tax on him sale that goes to fund Obamacare. [Here’s the article:](http://www.my9nj.com/story/23967715/njs-rich-funding-obamacare) > [@](#): > > If you are single with an adjusted gross income of $200,000 or file jointly with an income of $250,000 or more, you may be impacted. Once you sell your home, any profits over the first $500,000 are already subject to a capital gains tax. And now those profits will have an additional 3.8% tax to fund Obamacare. Is this right? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1294 "2013-11-15T08:15:27Z")
Obama! (sob!) Leave those rich people alone! (blubber!) They try so hard, they give and they give! And all you can do is tear (snivel) them down! You _bastards_!!! ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1295 "2013-11-15T11:22:25Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Is this right? I think that TV reporter did get it right. But people lucky enough to both have that high income and to have more than $500,000 in capital gains on their house are still going to pay a lot less than if the Bush tax cuts enacted in June 2001 had been rescinded, as they should have been to pay for the war on terror. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1296 "2013-11-15T13:01:03Z")
Glad to see Obama accepting responsibility for things, and trying his best to fix it. I’m not sure if a one year extension or permanent grandfathering will do any good or whatnot, but at least he’s trying his best to stick to his promises. I get the feeling that he truly didn’t understand the magnitude of what had happened until just recently and probably feels like a dismal failure. As he should. Let’s see if he can bring it back around and restore some faith in the ACA and Democratic brand. If not, the republicans will deserve to sweep victory in 2014 and 2016. _shudder_ ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1297 "2013-11-15T13:11:59Z")
That darn Bill Clinton, going rogue and saying what everyone is thinking. Oh, update: so now “junk” or “shitty” insurance isn’t so bad after all? Even worse, the number of people who actually signed up on the federal insurance website would leave a baseball stadium half empty? Good week there, Prez. I really feel bad for you. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1298 "2013-11-15T13:28:18Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > the republicans will deserve to sweep victory in 2014 and 2016. _shudder_ No. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1299 "2013-11-15T13:47:34Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Glad to see Obama accepting responsibility for things, and trying his best to fix it. I’m not sure if a one year extension or permanent grandfathering will do any good or whatnot, but at least he’s trying his best to stick to his promises. I get the feeling that he truly didn’t understand the magnitude of what had happened until just recently and probably feels like a dismal failure. As he should. Let’s see if he can bring it back around and restore some faith in the ACA and Democratic brand. If not, the republicans will deserve to sweep victory in 2014 and 2016. _shudder_ Wow. That’s, um… a huge leap, there. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534/1300 "2013-11-15T14:01:35Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > I think that TV reporter did get it right. > > But people lucky enough to both have that high income and to have more than $500,000 in capital gains on their house are still going to pay a lot less than if the Bush tax cuts enacted in June 2001 had been rescinded, as they should have been to pay for the war on terror. Good thing the Redistributor in Chief is there to play Robin Hood. One thing good that has come of all this is that more and more people are seeing Obama for what he is: a community organizer with strong socialist leanings determined to redraft the country into his version of fairness. Which means that if you are not beholden to the state, cough it up, because we have lots of people who are. And the more money we can extract from you because you’ve done fairly well in life, the more we can give it to those less fortunate, less intelligent, and/or less hardworking. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534.md?page=64) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-looks-like-we-were-lied-to-about-obamacare-after-all/672534.md?page=66)