# Oops! Ship runs into sub **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 14, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-ship-runs-into-sub/637722 "2012-10-14T21:08:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-ship-runs-into-sub/637722/1 "2012-10-14T21:08:02Z")
The Court Martial for [this one](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19940049) is going to be interesting. > [@BBC](#): > > According to the Reuters source, the watch team aboard the San Jacinto saw a periscope rise from the water about 100 to 200 yards (metres) ahead of the vessel. The cruiser ordered “all back” but too late to avoid a collision. I presume the sub’s CO will get canned for parking himself in front of a ship, but I wonder if the ship’s CO will also get canned for not having detected the sub beforehand? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-ship-runs-into-sub/637722/2 "2012-10-14T21:33:16Z")
During naval exercises both crews (and so ultimately both skippers) would be responsible for checking on the positions of other vessels relative to their own, so it’s possible that both have a share of the blame. But it is very lucky that no lives were lost. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-ship-runs-into-sub/637722/3 "2012-10-14T21:41:08Z")
We should really make those subs show up better on sonar, then things like this wouldn’t happen… ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-ship-runs-into-sub/637722/4 "2012-10-14T22:00:03Z")
A British boomer and a French boomer managed to collide with each other a couple of years ago. They are supposed to be undetectable, but tough if they use the same sneaky Atlantic routes. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-ship-runs-into-sub/637722/5 "2012-10-14T22:06:27Z")
The British _Truculent_ was run down and sunk by a cargo vessel in the 1950s. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-ship-runs-into-sub/637722/6 "2012-10-14T22:36:06Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > We should really make those subs show up better on sonar, then things like this wouldn’t happen… A modern sub shows up just fine at that range on a surface vessel’s obstacle avoidance sonar, if the operator is, you know, actually looking at it. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-ship-runs-into-sub/637722/7 "2012-10-14T22:56:08Z")
And with the sophisticated sonar systems on modern attack subs, they should’ve known the cruiser was right-freakin’-there. Were all the sonar operators screwing off? Was the Tracking Officer not updating the board properly? I’d like to hear from some of our former submariners how the hell a cruiser and sub get within 200 yards of one another without the sub at least knowing about it and taking evasive maneuvers. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-ship-runs-into-sub/637722/8 "2012-10-15T14:41:22Z")
It’s a big ocean, but these things happen - more often than you might think: > **[USS Tautog (SSN-639) |](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collision_between_Soviet_submarine_K-108_and_USS_Tautog_(SSN-639)#Collision_with_K-108.2C_1970)** > > On 20 June 1970, Tautog was patrolling the North Pacific Ocean near the city of Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, on the Soviet Union's Kamchatka Peninsula, which was a major base for missile-armed submarines of the Soviet Navy. Tautog was attempting to trail the K-108, a Soviet Navy Echo II-class guided-missile submarine nicknamed "Black Lila". The Soviet submarine was "close aboard" with Tautog, unaware that Tautog was in the vicinity, and the two submarines were within feet of one another for a lengt... > **[Ehime Maru and USS Greeneville collision](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Greeneville/Ehime_Maru_collision)** > > On 9 February 2001, about nine nautical miles (17 km; 10 mi) south of Oahu, Hawaii, in the Pacific Ocean, the United States Navy (USN) Los Angeles-class submarine USS Greeneville (SSN-772) collided with the Japanese fishery high-school training ship Ehime Maru (えひめ丸) from Ehime Prefecture. In a demonstration for some VIP civilian visitors, Greeneville performed an emergency ballast blow surfacing maneuver. As the submarine shot to the surface, it struck Ehime Maru. Within ten minutes of the co... > **[USS Hartford and USS New Orleans collision](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Hartford_and_USS_New_Orleans_collision)** > > The USS Hartford and USS New Orleans collision was a collision between the United States Navy Los Angeles-class submarine USS Hartford and the United States Navy San Antonio-class amphibious transport dock USS New Orleans on 20 March 2009. It occurred in the Strait of Hormuz, between Iran, the United Arab Emirates, and Musandam, an exclave of Oman. Both ships incurred millions of dollars' worth of damage in the collision which required repair in drydock. > A U.S. Navy investigation into the coll... > **[USS San Francisco (SSN-711)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_San_Francisco_(SSN-711)#Collision_with_seamount)** > > USS San Francisco (SSN-711) is a Los Angeles-class nuclear submarine, the third ship or boat of the United States Navy to be named for San Francisco, California. > Newport News Shipbuilding and Dry Dock Company in Newport News, Virginia was awarded the contract to build USS San Francisco on 1 August 1975, and her keel was laid down on 26 May 1977. She was launched on 27 October 1979, sponsored by Mrs. Robert Y. Kaufman, and commissioned on 24 April 1981 with Commander J. Allen Marshall in comm... Both captains’ careers are, very likely, finished. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-ship-runs-into-sub/637722/9 "2012-10-16T02:01:47Z")
A question for the nautical types: why did the ship go into full reverse? You’re not going to stop in time. Wouldn’t it have been more sensible to try to go left or right (port or starboard)? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-ship-runs-into-sub/637722/10 "2012-10-16T02:52:40Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > A question for the nautical types: why did the ship go into full reverse? You’re not going to stop in time. Wouldn’t it have been more sensible to try to go left or right (port or starboard)? Thats what I was thinking. Not to mention the sub could have dropped down about 50 feet (though I guess at some point you don’t have enough time) and all would have been well. This encounter sounds like that bad nautical light house vs big ship joke. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-ship-runs-into-sub/637722/11 "2012-10-16T03:17:13Z")
The sub popped up close enough that they could not have missed it if they tried to turn. By going full reverse, they lessened the impact of the inevitable collision. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-ship-runs-into-sub/637722/12 "2012-10-16T04:57:08Z")
In someone’s peripheral vision, the career expiration light is blinking red… ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-ship-runs-into-sub/637722/13 "2012-10-16T23:59:43Z")
> [@](#): > > A question for the nautical types: why did the ship go into full reverse? You’re not going to stop in time. Wouldn’t it have been more sensible to try to go left or right (port or starboard)? Isn’t that what the _Titanic_ tried to do? And we all know how well that worked out. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-ship-runs-into-sub/637722/14 "2014-08-23T14:05:43Z")
A bump: it looks like they’ve put the [majority of the blame](http://www.navytimes.com/article/20140610/NEWS/306100084/Navy-Human-error-led-sub-Montpelier-collision-2012) on the submarine. > [@Navy Times](#): > > The investigation also faulted the Montpelier’s commanding officer, Cmdr. Thomas Winter, for failing to follow basic established periscope depth operating procedures. The depth the submarine was operating at was redacted, but the report noted that Winter ordered that it go to “emergency deep” after watch standers realized how close it was to the San Jacinto. Winter was relieved of his duties following the collision due to a loss of confidence in his ability to command. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21825_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-ship-runs-into-sub/637722/15 "2014-08-23T14:33:03Z")
Vessels of virtually any size cannot turn on a dime to avoid something in the water. You’ve got a huge mass moving thru a low-friction environment - that’s a lot of inertia to overcome. And boats and ships don’t turn like cars - they pivot about a point on the hull so the bow will be moving in the desired direction of turn and the stern will be swinging in the opposite direction, so even if the front end managed to miss colliding, there’s still a chance that the back end would hit. That’s why everything afloat should have a lookout or 10. Even with all the fancy electronics available today, eyeballs are still pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-ship-runs-into-sub/637722/16 "2014-08-23T15:14:27Z")
I have heard that even when it’s not the ship/sub captain’s fault, if something bad happens, it’s the captain’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-ship-runs-into-sub/637722/17 "2014-08-23T15:29:49Z")
If the situation was in any way analogous to my own pontoon boat exploits, both captains were hurriedly scuttling empty beer cans. ---
**Author:** ![MG1692](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@MG1692](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MG1692)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-ship-runs-into-sub/637722/18 "2014-08-23T15:38:12Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > A question for the nautical types: why did the ship go into full reverse? You’re not going to stop in time. Wouldn’t it have been more sensible to try to go left or right (port or starboard)? You do both. By going into full reverse you begin to slow the ship, but also make the rudder more efficient in turning. But understand it is a hail Mary play ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-ship-runs-into-sub/637722/19 "2014-08-23T15:48:41Z")
> [@Dendarii\_Dame](#): > > I have heard that even when it’s not the ship/sub captain’s fault, if something bad happens, it’s the captain’s fault. > [@](#): > > An anonymous naval source told Reuters the collision had caused the cruiser’s sonar dome to collapse. Well it’s not like they used it. “The English occasionally shoot a few Admirals to encourage the others” -Voltaire ---
**Author:** ![Missy2U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@Missy2U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Missy2U)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-ship-runs-into-sub/637722/20 "2014-08-23T20:37:20Z")
Jeez Louise. My son’s currently underway - thank God it wasn’t his sub! Talk about a :eek: moment!! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oops-ship-runs-into-sub/637722.md?page=2)