# Open Canopies on WWII Fighters **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 13, 2007, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-canopies-on-wwii-fighters/419064 "2007-09-13T13:51:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-canopies-on-wwii-fighters/419064/1 "2007-09-13T13:51:58Z")
In WWII movies, the fighters invariably have their canopies open when flying. This leads to my questions: 1. Why would they do this? Was the cockpit too hot? 2. Didn’t it make a lot of wind noise? Or does the streamlining prevent much air from coming in? Or is all the air flow over the pilot’s head? I’m guessing it isn’t like a car where having the windows open at high speeds makes for a lot of wind noise. 3. Could one talk on the radio with it open? 4. Do they still do this? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-canopies-on-wwii-fighters/419064/2 "2007-09-13T13:54:19Z")
They did this so the camera wouldn’t catch reflections from the canopy, and the set microphone could pick up the actor’s voice. It’s a movie, not real life. IRL, the wind noise, wind shear, and turbulance at 350mph would be very hard to cope with. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-canopies-on-wwii-fighters/419064/3 "2007-09-13T13:56:39Z")
Wow I’m surprised that the movies would introduce something so inaccurate. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-canopies-on-wwii-fighters/419064/4 "2007-09-13T14:05:58Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] 4) Do they still do this? [/QUOTE] What, film F22s flying around with the canopy open? 😕😛 I can’t remember much about the film Pearl Harbour, but I’d reckon CGI takes away the need to have cockpits open. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-canopies-on-wwii-fighters/419064/5 "2007-09-13T14:10:17Z")
[QUOTE=Pushkin] What, film F22s flying around with the canopy open? 😕😛 I can’t remember much about the film Pearl Harbour, but I’d reckon CGI takes away the need to have cockpits open. [/QUOTE] I wouldn’t think modern fighters would be open but what do I know? I’m just surprised the studios didn’t just put mikes in the cockpit and figure out how to eliminate the glare. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-canopies-on-wwii-fighters/419064/6 "2007-09-13T14:27:25Z")
Maybe they do it in the movies for practicality, but there is [some precedent](http://www.creativecow.net/articles/hurwicz_michael/monster_pak/19sqnspit640.jpg) for it. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-canopies-on-wwii-fighters/419064/7 "2007-09-13T15:07:13Z")
At a guess, the only time I would expect real pilots to have flown with the canopies open would have been for photo ops and on take-off or landing–when the need to exit the plane in case of a problem would have encouraged them to not have the anything to slow them down while the open canopy would not have made that much difference to their airspeed with the landing gear and the flaps extended anyway. It is possible, I suppose, that at cruising speeds on reconaissance sweeps, they might have left the canopies open to permit the pilot to lean out and look around below the wings to see more area without having to stand the plane on its wingtip. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-canopies-on-wwii-fighters/419064/8 "2007-09-13T15:19:21Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] At a guess, the only time I would expect real pilots to have flown with the canopies open would have been for photo ops and on take-off or landing–when the need to exit the plane in case of a problem would have encouraged them to not have the anything to slow them down while the open canopy would not have made that much difference to their airspeed with the landing gear and the flaps extended anyway. It is possible, I suppose, that at cruising speeds on reconaissance sweeps, they might have left the canopies open to permit the pilot to lean out and look around below the wings to see more area without having to stand the plane on its wingtip. [/QUOTE] Canopies were always closed. You don’t lean out of an airplance that is traveling even as much as 100 mph. At cruising speed, 250 mph or so, it would be suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Survey1215](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecb155/32.png) [@Survey1215](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Survey1215)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-canopies-on-wwii-fighters/419064/9 "2007-09-13T20:21:11Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] I wouldn’t think modern fighters would be open but what do I know? I’m just surprised the studios didn’t just put mikes in the cockpit and figure out how to eliminate the glare. [/QUOTE] The studios likely didn’t want moviegoers to miss out on seeing their handsome stars in the cockpit, or the stars wanted to make sure the moviegoers saw them in there. And in response to one of the questions in the OP, most modern fighters don’t have the kind of canopy that can be opened during flight unless thats a precursor to the ejection seat going boom. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-canopies-on-wwii-fighters/419064/10 "2007-09-13T20:22:30Z")
Very early on in WWII some of the planes didn’t go fast enough, and thuis some (like the bi-planes) didn’t even have a fully enclosed canopy. Fiat CR.42 Falco (“Falcon”) is an example. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-canopies-on-wwii-fighters/419064/11 "2007-09-13T20:53:06Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] Wow I’m surprised that the movies would introduce something so inaccurate. [/QUOTE] This is irony, right? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![YPOD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e99b99/32.png) [@YPOD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YPOD)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-canopies-on-wwii-fighters/419064/12 "2007-09-13T21:01:30Z")
Cockpits could and would get really hot - boiling sometimes, especially in the south pacific. At normal slow cruising speeds, on most WWII aircraft it could be possible to fly with the canopy open. They don’t call that bit of pexiglass in the front a “windshield” for nothing. If going into combat, the canopy would normally be slid shut to keep out oil, fumes, smoke, rain, and noise, and possibly to improve the streamling a bit. I think the aerodynamics of a bubble canopy - such as on the P51D - worked against the open canopy, but the sliding canopy on earlier models or say, a Grumman Hellcat would be easier to fly open. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-canopies-on-wwii-fighters/419064/13 "2007-09-13T21:14:20Z")
Somewhat related, I recall some comments about filming the movie Backdraft with the actors going through smoke filled buildings without their air masks, because the audience wasn’t paying $7 bucks apiece to watch annymous space helmet guys run around. It’s something that would never be done IRL. Same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Zambini57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4491bb/32.png) [@Zambini57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zambini57)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-canopies-on-wwii-fighters/419064/14 "2007-09-13T21:28:13Z")
I have seen plenty of authentic WW2 footage where pilots flew with canopies open. At least during take-off. See William Wyler’s “Thunderbolt” for examples of this. I also recently read a short article on the P-38 “Lightning”, which was a fighter used extensively in the Pacific war. The cockpit wa so hot that pilots flew in t-shirts and shorts with canopies open until they met enemy fighters or went into their bombing/strafing missions. Later, things changed and canopies were flown closed at all times. Something about it completing a circuit with the ejection seat. I know the OP was about WW2, but there was an incident related to in “The Right Stuff” about open canopies drawing exhaust fumes into the cockpit and asphyxiating the pilot. ---
**Author:** ![Ferd\_Burfel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecccb3/32.png) [@Ferd\_Burfel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferd_Burfel)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-canopies-on-wwii-fighters/419064/15 "2007-09-13T21:33:03Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] In WWII movies, the fighters invariably have their canopies open when flying. This leads to my questions: 1. Why would they do this? Was the cockpit too hot? 2. Didn’t it make a lot of wind noise? Or does the streamlining prevent much air from coming in? Or is all the air flow over the pilot’s head? I’m guessing it isn’t like a car where having the windows open at high speeds makes for a lot of wind noise. 3. Could one talk on the radio with it open? 4. Do they still do this? [/QUOTE] Did you watch \*\*Midway \*\*last night on AMC?? Coz I did and was going to ask the same question today. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-canopies-on-wwii-fighters/419064/16 "2007-09-13T21:50:12Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] Somewhat related, I recall some comments about filming the movie Backdraft with the actors going through smoke filled buildings without their air masks, because the audience wasn’t paying $7 bucks apiece to watch annymous space helmet guys run around. It’s something that would never be done IRL. Same thing. [/QUOTE] Lil hijack Not entirely true, especially in what could be a long drawn out interior search & rescue situation in an only partially involved building. There are often times when you could very easily operate without your SCBA for extended periods of time. What that movie really lacked was smoke…moviegoers would never pay to go see the inside of a real fire…you can’t see anything more than 6" in front of your face half the time. ---
**Author:** ![brad\_d](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@brad\_d](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brad_d)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-canopies-on-wwii-fighters/419064/17 "2007-09-13T22:21:06Z")
The third photo down on [this page](http://www.daveswarbirds.com/cactus/cactus.htm) shows a Wildcat flying over Guadalcanal with the canopy obviously open. The attached quote: “It was not uncommon for pilots in World War II to fly with the canopy open while not engaged in combat.” ---
**Author:** ![AmalgramFour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@AmalgramFour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AmalgramFour)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-canopies-on-wwii-fighters/419064/18 "2007-09-13T22:28:07Z")
I vageuly remember reading an anecdote from the battle of Britain. A british pilot was jumped by some Messerschmitts. He had to try and close the canopy while manoeuvring, and it was ripped off by the airstream. If accurate, this implies that flying at cruising speeds (maybe in the low 200s mph) wasn’t that unusual. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-canopies-on-wwii-fighters/419064/19 "2007-09-14T05:10:50Z")
[QUOTE=Survey1215] most modern fighters don’t have the kind of canopy that can be opened during flight unless thats a precursor to the ejection seat going boom. [/QUOTE] Modern ejection systems handle the whole sequence - you pull one handle to make all the right things (including canopy jettison) happen. ---
**Author:** ![brad\_d](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@brad\_d](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brad_d)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-canopies-on-wwii-fighters/419064/20 "2007-09-14T05:17:36Z")
[QUOTE=brad\_d] The third photo down on [this page](http://www.daveswarbirds.com/cactus/cactus.htm) shows a Wildcat flying over Guadalcanal with the canopy obviously open. The attached quote: “It was not uncommon for pilots in World War II to fly with the canopy open while not engaged in combat.” [/QUOTE] Crap - I messed up the link. It’s [here](http://www.daveswarbirds.com/cactus/photo1.htm). Damn frames… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-canopies-on-wwii-fighters/419064.md?page=2)