Open carry question

There are lots of things that could be carried around to protect themselves and their family in case they need it. The aforementioned first aid kit for instance. Do you carry one of those around? I suspect that a first aid kit would be FAR more likely to be used in day to day activities than a gun.

Or how about this?

“I carry a gun to keep my family safe in case I need it”

“Yeah? Do you have any studies that show you are safer with a gun than without?”

“No, but I don’t need any studies, it is my right to carry a gun”

:smack:

Again, I fully support your right to carry a gun in whatever manner your are legally able to carry it.

Think of “because I have that right” similar to “check your privilege”. The latter is shorthand for an expansive discussion about differing power structures in society but could also be used to dismiss various lines of discussion.

I prefer the response “Lawful self defense”.

And is your safety increased by carrying a gun? If you say “Yes” how can you prove it?

That is the context of the question as asked on this board. The answer of “because I have a right to.” does not in any way answer that question. They are not seeing a person carrying a gun, and hassling them or calling the police, they are not denying the entry of a person carrying a gun. They are not legislators or judges, so that are not thinking that they have the ability to remove that right.

They are talking to people who are on a messageboard, and are outspoken about their need to carry a gun. When these people who are outspoken about their need to carry a gun, the reply is that they have that right. That’s not an answer.

That’s a fine answer for someone who did not offer his opinion in the first place.

That’s a very odd answer for someone who felt inclined to offer his opinion on a message board.

I believe it is - or would be since I’m in CA. I’d prefer concealed but if the state allowed only open I’d do that.

How can I prove it? The overwhelming evidence of DGU combined with the comparatively low statistics of accidentally injury and death are personally persuasive. Your opinion may differ.

So, you CAN’T prove it? You only have your beliefs and your opinions?

What would you accept as proof? Ultimately it’s a cost benefit evaluation so proof that the costs are less than the benefits is not falsifiable, in either direction.

I don’t know. Maybe studies similar to those that show using a seat belt is safer than not?

Or maybe studies similar to the ones that show having a fire extinguisher in your home makes it safer?

Anything like that around?

How about the overwhelming evidence of defensive gun use compared to the comparatively low statistics of accidental injuries and deaths?

Regards,
Shodan

Any links to peer reviewed studies that compare the two?

Also, I believe this is about carrying a gun around in public, and not simply having one in your home or place of business. So, DGU in the home or a place of business by the owner doesn’t count.

And this is a pretty good illustration of the efficacy of MacTech’s response. Like I said, it’s a cost/benefit evaluation. You probably weigh the costs and the benefits differently than I do, so I doubt I’d convince you.

In any event, here is what the CDC said (my bold):

Thanks for the link, but 2 things with your quote:

  1. it says “more research is needed”

  2. it doesn’t differentiate DGU at home vs while walking around in public.

Hey if you want to say “I just feel safer walking around with a gun in public” then just say that.

Says who?

Regards,
Shodan

Says the title of the thread.

Unless of course, you consider having a gun in your home to be the same as open carry.

But, I have read the positive gun news of the day thread from time to time, and I am not sure I have seen very many DGU’s from concealed or open carriers in public. Most of them take place in the home or business.

If you are talking about the safety of open carry in public, then statistics on open carry in public make more sense than statistics that are not related to open carry in public.

That hasn’t been my experience.

But, since you ask in that context, I’ll be happy to share my own reasons for carrying a concealed firearm.

I rarely carry. But when I do, typically it’s because I’m going to be in a situation where I’m in a area that’s not safe, after hours, in possession of cash or goods that are desirable. This arises for me at times when I volunteer at a local shelter and have to deliver things other than food; at one point years ago one of our volunteers was robbed at knife point of 135 $20 Macdonalds’ gift cards that were going to be given away to clients and visitors. My intention here is to be able to engage in lawful self-defense.

Sometimes I’ll carry because I’m going to and from the range.

Sometimes I have open carried because I think there’s value in normalizing the sight of a portly middle-aged guy wearing a handgun openly – a sight that may alarm someone if it’s rare will become unremarkable the more often it’s seen. I absolutely think this is a great idea but in practice find it too cumbersome to do with any real frequency.

Pretty sure he meant this thread, since the title is “Open carry question”

In any event, thank you for clearly spelling out your reasons. But the area in question seems to be your first reason. You said you carry to be safe in a dangerous environment. And the question is still “ARE you safer carrying a gun? Or do you simply FEEL safer?”

If you answer “Yes, I am safer” then prove that it is safer to carry a gun in public than not carrying it.

If you answer “Well, I feel safer carrying a gun” then just say “I don’t know if I’m safer or not, but I certainly FEEL safer carrying a gun”

You’re the one that introduced the concept of “safer”. Whether it is safer or not you can argue, but as the factors to measure that relative safety are subjective, there is no real answer. We all make choices that are arguably less safe than others but because of the relative utility derived we make that tradeoff.

I’m comfortable with lawful self defense as a sufficient reason.

I appreciate the reply in kind.

As to the first, I agree with is a good and acceptable reasons to carry a gun, with the caveat that I personally do not feel that my reflexes are good enough to use a gun I am carrying on someone who already has the drop on me. I specifically would not carry in those situations, because I believe that I would either make the situation much worse for myself, or I would end up giving the mugger a gun.

The second, no big deal either way, some of my friends open carry from the range, but most of them lock their guns up in their secure little boxes in their trunk. I could ask those who choose to carry why, but I probably won’t see them again until well into next year.

The last, I personally disagree with. I do consider guns to be a danger to those around them, and if they have no constructive purpose, then they are only a liability. I do think that we would be better off if someone saw someone carrying a gun in a place or a way that that person did not feel comfortable with, then that person could feel safe in calling the authorities. Normalizing people carrying guns, even into places where guns are not supposed to be, I do not feel increases public safety. I do realize that we are at opposite opinions on this this matter, where you feel that normalizing such behavior is a public good.

There isn’t? Is it safer to wear a seatbelt in a car or not? Is it safer to have a fire extinguisher in your house or not? Is it safer to walk with traffic or against traffic?

I’m pretty sure there are studies for each of these that lead to whether or not we should do them.

If a study came out and said “Wearing a seat belt doesn’t make you any safer” then why would I keep wearing it?

Of course there can be studies on the increase or decrease of safety for a taking a particular action.

“Yes, I am safer.” This has been demonstrated on at least four different occasions.

If we were talking about someone wearing a helmet while driving his/her car, you would probably just say, “The improvement in safety is negligible, but it’s that person’s personal decision and it doesn’t affect me.” Why isn’t the same true of someone who carries a firearm?

I’m 100% invested in myself and, in most cases, responsible for my personal safety. If I increase my personal safety by 0.05% by carrying a firearm, what’s the beef? I wear a motorcycle helmet, but I don’t believe it substantially improves my chances for survival in a severe crash. It helps a little bit and in some circumstances.

For the record, I don’t normally carry a weapon. But saying that I shouldn’t carry a weapon because there’s a slightly greater chance that it might injure someone else than save me is not a legitimate argument. The logical progression from that POV is that we start sacrificing the more worthless members of society at each Solstice.