# Open gun carry is coming to Texas **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 25, 2015, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338 "2015-12-25T17:46:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/21 "2015-12-25T21:02:08Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Has it mattered so far, and what are the chances(you think) that it will matter in the future that your gun is now better and that you can draw faster? Yes-I understand that you have a constitutional right and that you don’t have to answer to anyone, especially me…but you brought up those specific reasons yourself, and I’d like to explore that angle just a little bit, if you don’t mind. Sure. I often hike in bear country. A .44 magnum is generally considered to be the absolute minimum power level for bear defense, especially against grizzlies. Bear attacks, when they do come, usually come very rapidly, where time is of the essence. A former coworker of mine will personally attest to this. As far the “bigger being better” part, it’s pretty simple. I can shoot more accurately with a 4-inch barrel than with a 2" barrel. Most everyone can. Longer sight radius. The chances that it will matter in the future? Animal attack, fairly low. Although as I mentioned, my coworker was mauled by a grizzly in an area where I hike. (Wind River Range.) I had an encounter with a black bear once. No shots fired, but I was glad I was armed. Odds are still pretty low, I think, but as they say, you’re more likely to die from lightning that you are by shark attack. But the money on the sharks goes way up if you’re paddling around in the middle of the ocean. For personal defense, I will say this: 1. I believe in the deterrent effect of an armed citizenry. That is, criminals are less likely to commit crimes as the ability of the populace to defend it self goes up. I can’t quantify the crimes that weren’t committed because I and others were armed. But to deny they exist is foolish. I do my part. 2. Both times I was involved in situations where future physical violence was a possibility, I was advised by law enforcement officers to carry a firearm. Once was a threat from an unstable coworker who threatened to kill me and other employees. The second was after a home robbery when I inquired as to the likelihood of the criminals returning, as they’d obviously seen and not taken some valuables. Overall, I like to think the chance of being a victim of violent crime is low. Probably less than 2.6% per year. Less for me, because I’m armed, live a well-armed local with low crime rates, and don’t engage in criminal activities. > **[Home](https://bjs.ojp.gov)** > > The Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) is the United States' primary source for criminal justice statistics that cover a wide range of topics. That being said, even if the odds are in my favor, why not? I also carry a first aid kit , fire extinguisher and tools in my truck, water purification tablets when hiking, etc. Better safe than sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/22 "2015-12-25T21:08:41Z")
As to the why of it, I would wager that when it’s 105 degrees outside and you’re just wearing blue jeans and a t-shirt, concealed carry is a mite tricky. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/23 "2015-12-25T21:29:06Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Has it mattered so far, and what are the chances(you think) that it will matter in the future that your gun is now better and that you can draw faster? Yes-I understand that you have a constitutional right and that you don’t have to answer to anyone, especially me…but you brought up those specific reasons yourself, and I’d like to explore that angle just a little bit, if you don’t mind. Everything about my full size 9mm is better by orders of magnitude than my compact .380. I’m not a big fan of open carry but it puts a much better gun closer to hand. Like all things in life there are alternatives. A concealed gun is not static. it can go from unloaded and hard to reach to chambered and pocketed if the owner perceives a dangerous situation. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/24 "2015-12-25T21:36:42Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > There are a lot of things you have a _right_ to do that you don’t do for many reasons. And deciding to exercise a right might not require an explanation to the government, but it’s perfectly reasonable for people to ask for your reasons. Yes, that’s pretty much what I said, paraphrased and said back to me… what’s your point? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2015, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/25 "2015-12-25T21:43:37Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Those are perfectly valid reasons, and are among the answers you will get if you ask concealed carry people why they carry a gun. Others have provided substantive reasons why they prefer open carry, but “because I can” is not a perfectly valid reason. Use your imagination for all sorts of insults I could hurl at nuns, teachers, veterans, children, and so on. Just because the First Amendment gives me wide latitude to say all sorts of things, it doesn’t necessarily follow that such a constitutional right gives me a valid reason to be obnoxious. ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/26 "2015-12-25T21:53:04Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Others have provided substantive reasons why they prefer open carry, but “because I can” is not a perfectly valid reason. Use your imagination for all sorts of insults I could hurl at nuns, teachers, veterans, children, and so on. Just because the First Amendment gives me wide latitude to say all sorts of things, it doesn’t necessarily follow that such a constitutional right gives me a valid reason to be obnoxious. Some take offense to the question, because we get it so often from the gun banners. “Why do you need to carry a gun” or “why do you need” an assault rifle? It’s seldom a legitimate question, an usually serves as a weak opening from a smug gun banner to advance his arguments. We get sick of it. Same with Czarcasm’s question. I gave him the benefit of the doubt, on the off chance he was sincere. (Plus he’s polite.) But usually the question “have you ever needed your gun” come out of one side of a gun controllers mouth, while the other side is telling everyone how violence is so out of control that we have to do something. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2015, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/27 "2015-12-25T22:07:39Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > In a _non_-open carry state, robbers open-carrying weapons would be automatic suspects, and in a state where open-carry is promoted to show the bad guys that the good guys mean business, the open-carrying bad guys will have a much better idea of where the guns _aren’t_. The scenario described by **Keln** only works if the bank is always occupied by a larger group of open-carrying good guys…and I don’t think you’ll have that situation at this point, even if every single concealed-carry citizen in Texas converted to open carry. Remember-deterrence works best when it is reliable and consistent. Yes, of course. But that has nothing to do with the questions I asked. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2015, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/28 "2015-12-25T22:51:38Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Glad you’re taking it in stride. > > I think open gun carry is better than concealed, I’m fine if I know who’s armed. Maybe there’s an additional benefit, not sure if it would prove out in reality, but an openly carried gun can have a deterrent effect. By the time you un-conceal a gun it may be too late to stop something before it happens. This. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2015, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/29 "2015-12-25T22:57:59Z")
> [@ChickenLegs](#): > > Same with Czarcasm’s question. I gave him the benefit of the doubt, on the off chance he was sincere. That’s an interesting choice. ---
**Author:** ![Oddball\_92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b3f665/32.png) [@Oddball\_92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oddball_92)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/30 "2015-12-26T00:58:17Z")
I have seen a youtube vid where a guy is walking down the street carrying an AR-15 (or some other type assault rifle) . Police are talking to him about why he had it, and he said he was “exercising his right”. Granted, he was not breaking any laws, and I really dont have a problem with him having the rifle, but this in-your-face attitude is what I see as being a potential problem. When this new law goes into effect I suspect there will be a number of those types, at least until the novelty wears off. As far as personal experience, I carried a gun (as well as a backup) under a suit for 20 years while at work. I always thought it was a PITA, albeit necessary. My personal opinion is that I would always want mine concealed. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/31 "2015-12-26T01:14:14Z")
> [@Oddball\_92](#): > > I have seen a youtube vid where a guy is walking down the street carrying an AR-15 (or some other type assault rifle) . Police are talking to him about why he had it, and he said he was “exercising his right”. Granted, he was not breaking any laws, and I really dont have a problem with him having the rifle, but this in-your-face attitude is what I see as being a potential problem. Did the police seize him? That is, did they detain him such that a reasonable person would not feel free to disregard the police inquiries and go about his business? I haven’t seen this video, but I’ll hazard a guess that they did. And I’ll hazard a further guess that they did so absent either probable cause or a reasonable, articulable suspicion of law breaking. Am I right in my gusses? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/32 "2015-12-26T01:20:01Z")
How soon after the law goes into effect do you suppose there will be: [ol][li]armed civilians pretending to guard military recruiting stations?[/li]armed protesters around the local mosque?[/ol] ---
**Author:** ![Oddball\_92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b3f665/32.png) [@Oddball\_92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oddball_92)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/33 "2015-12-26T01:37:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Did the police seize him? That is, did they detain him such that a reasonable person would not feel free to disregard the police inquiries and go about his business? > > I haven’t seen this video, but I’ll hazard a guess that they did. > > And I’ll hazard a further guess that they did so absent either probable cause or a reasonable, articulable suspicion of law breaking. > > Am I right in my gusses? They detained him briefly then let him go as he was not breaking any laws. This was some time back and I am not sure what state this was in and I cant find the video now. I still have to question WHY anyone would want to do this other than just to feel empowered, however briefly, or just to be able to one-up the police. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/34 "2015-12-26T01:43:11Z")
It does the police good to be reminded from time to time that their job is to enforce laws that are actually on the books; they don’t get to just make shit up as they go along. ---
**Author:** ![DirtyHippy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dirtyhippy/32/107_2.png) [@DirtyHippy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirtyHippy)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/35 "2015-12-26T02:03:09Z")
Timely cartoon. [http://assets.amuniversal.com/352f2b508b7d01332bf3005056a9545d](http://assets.amuniversal.com/352f2b508b7d01332bf3005056a9545d) ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/36 "2015-12-26T02:19:55Z")
Why don’t people demonstrate using more understated acceptable methods? Maybe they could like, go to the back of a bus and quietly seethe or something. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/37 "2015-12-26T02:22:41Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > 😕 😕 I am SO ignorant about guns, I always thought that open carry was the default, and a special permit was required for concealed carry. Now I know at least one state is _the opposite_. :smack: > > _ **Interesting that when I politely asked for an explanation of “concealed carry” in one of the gun threads I mostly got gibberish, tautologies and snark and no one thought to mention this.** _ > > I’ve spent a total of almost 40 years in the U.S.A. and never once saw a gun brandished as a threat. Not once! (My life was sheltered, friends being academics, computer professionals, etc.) My experiences as an expat have taught me much more about Americans and Europeans than I ever learned during the 40 years in the U.S. (Can’t remember meeting an anti-Semite in the U.S. A large plurality of older expat Europeans in Thailand hate Jews. Just a few days ago one justified this with “There must be something wrong with them, because people have hated them for thousands of years.”) > > I also met a Texan over here. He was proud that he lived in a state where “if someone stole an old broken TV from me, I have the right to shoot him with my gun… I’d fire the first shot into his center-of-mass and then approach to finish him off with head shots… When Obama comes to grab my gun I’m gonna shove it up his ass.” > > What does this have to do with the “Debate”? Just one thing. I’m _sure_ that none of the fine people posting on the SDMB is an asshole or a racist. But the correlation between gun nuts and racist assholes is _very_ strong. By blinding themselves to this fact, the pro-gun posters manage to see all debates in a twisted way. I ask the pro-gun people to consider the millions of assholish Americans with guns next time they want to turn deaf ears to the complaints of rational thinkers. > > HTH. I’m not sure why I should consider the opinions of racists or attempt to justify their behavior. Why should I be forced to carry their weight? I should also be considering that when disagreeing with “rational thinkers”, because somehow holding the same opinion about non-racial things such as guns with racists marks the very thought as irrational. To the best of my knowledge, gun-control advocates are the people trying to ban black rifles. Racists all. ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/38 "2015-12-26T03:16:30Z")
> [@DirtyHippy](#): > > Timely cartoon. > > [http://assets.amuniversal.com/352f2b508b7d01332bf3005056a9545d](http://assets.amuniversal.com/352f2b508b7d01332bf3005056a9545d) There is a world where gun controllers live, where otherwise rational people panic at the sight of a gun, where pistol grips and bayonet lugs make rifles more deadly, where I’m 42 times more likely to shoot myself or my friends than to use my gun for defense, where carrying a gun is of no value because bad guys can just take it away (why can’t I take their guns away?), where the cops that shoot 100 rounds per year are highly trained weapons experts but I and my ex-military friends are incompetent buffoons, and where the best defense against mass shootings is to put up a sign that says “no guns allowed”. Then there’s the real world. That’s where I live. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/39 "2015-12-26T03:26:26Z")
Just to clarify things, private businesses can still ban openly carried guns from their premises under this new law? ---
**Author:** ![Oddball\_92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b3f665/32.png) [@Oddball\_92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oddball_92)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/40 "2015-12-26T03:33:38Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > Just to clarify things, private businesses can still ban openly carried guns from their premises under this new law? Yes they can. In fact, H.E.B., which is a Texas based grocery store chain, has announced they are going to ban open carry in their stores. They have not yet banned concealed carry which, incidentally, they have the right to do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338.md?page=3)