# Open gun carry is coming to Texas **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 25, 2015, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338 "2015-12-25T17:46:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/61 "2015-12-27T14:07:20Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Another reason is if there is a penalty for open carry, a concealed carrier may accidently reveal their firearm which could be grounds for penalty if open carry is prohibited. > > There is also comfort, access, and clothing options that open carry may be preferable. I would think this has something to do with it. I would think that concealing a firearm while trying to be comfortable in the Texas heat to be nearly impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/62 "2015-12-27T14:31:11Z")
> [@ChickenLegs](#): > > By the way, Wyoming has a lower homicide rate than five Canadian provinces/territories that have both stricter gun control AND a lower population density. Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Yukon, NW Territories, and Nunavut. This is one of those “true but misleading” statistics: approximately the northern half of Saskatchewan is uninhabited boreal forest and in the case of Manitoba, it’s more like 90%. Saskatchewan has two urban centers 2 to 3 times as populous as Wyoming’s most populous, and Manitoba has Winnipeg, a metro of over 700 thousand people, larger than Wyoming’s entire population on its own. Manitoba is basically Nevada in terms of its population spread - One city that takes up the vast majority of people, a couple of smaller cities, and then an enormous empty quarter. It’s just as bad, if not worse, than the Wyoming/California comparison you’re complaining about. ---
**Author:** ![Oddball\_92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b3f665/32.png) [@Oddball\_92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oddball_92)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/63 "2015-12-27T20:01:39Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > Will Texas have a standard for open carry? Will a person have to qualify a couple of times a year with a certain proficiency? How about testing competency in regard to the law, lethal use of force, etc…? > > Yeah, I’m joking. "He just needed killin’ " is a valid defense down there. Yes, we prefer the “jes needed killin’” defense here. It saves a ton of paperwork. Open carry is no different in concealed carry as far as qualifications. All instruction, testing etc. is done before the CHL is issued. If you have a CHL you can now (well, on Jan 1) open carry. There is no level of proficiency required, it is just pass or fail. ---
**Author:** ![Oddball\_92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b3f665/32.png) [@Oddball\_92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oddball_92)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/64 "2015-12-27T20:12:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Gotcha. > > Well, if that’s the case, my guess might be wrong. The police are absolutely entitled to come up and start talking to a person for any reason or no reason at all – as long as he’s free to disregard their inquiry and walk away. > > Police are well aware of this rule; not all citizens are. So police are very good, sometimes, at exploiting that: stopping someone by using an attitude that seems to demand compliance but later piously asserting that the encounter, at that point, was consensual and the citizen free to walk away. > > So it behooves the citizen who encounters police to specifically ask if he’s free to go. There is one new aspect to this, however. Now that open carry exists, if a police officer sees someone with a weapon, the police officer can, for no other reason, ask the person to produce their handgun license, thereby detaining them long enough for the officer to ascertain if they are licensed to carry at all. So the guy openly carries a gun decides to ignore the cops and continue to walk on may find himself being “detained” longer than he might expect. I am sure this will not sit well with those who like to “in-your-face” it with the cops. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/65 "2015-12-27T22:47:25Z")
> [@Oddball\_92](#): > > There is one new aspect to this, however. Now that open carry exists, if a police officer sees someone with a weapon, the police officer can, for no other reason, ask the person to produce their handgun license, thereby detaining them long enough for the officer to ascertain if they are licensed to carry at all. > So the guy openly carries a gun decides to ignore the cops and continue to walk on may find himself being “detained” longer than he might expect. > I am sure this will not sit well with those who like to “in-your-face” it with the cops. I haven’t really reviewed the law, but I’m curious about this claim. A person needs a license to drive a car, but this does not entitle the police to stop a car to verify that the driver has a driving license. Is it that the handgun law in Texas includes a provision that permits officers to detain and verify? ---
**Author:** ![Oddball\_92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b3f665/32.png) [@Oddball\_92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oddball_92)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/66 "2015-12-27T22:55:57Z")
According to Devon Anderson, Harris County District Attorney, officers can do so. I do not know if it is written in the law or if it is just a position the DA’s office is taking until challenged. ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/67 "2015-12-27T23:01:01Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > This is one of those “true but misleading” statistics: approximately the northern half of Saskatchewan is uninhabited boreal forest and in the case of Manitoba, it’s more like 90%. Saskatchewan has two urban centers 2 to 3 times as populous as Wyoming’s most populous, and Manitoba has Winnipeg, a metro of over 700 thousand people, larger than Wyoming’s entire population on its own. Manitoba is basically Nevada in terms of its population spread - One city that takes up the vast majority of people, a couple of smaller cities, and then an enormous empty quarter. It’s just as bad, if not worse, than the Wyoming/California comparison you’re complaining about. Again - that’s the point. Jackpot, baby. You can no more make crime rate comparisons between Wyoming and Canadian provinces, based solely on guns laws, than you can between the United States and hand-picked countries of your choice. One thing you can say about Wyoming: It is demonstrably possible to have very lax gun laws and a low crime rate. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/68 "2015-12-27T23:19:10Z")
> [@ChickenLegs](#): > > One thing you can say about Wyoming: It is demonstrably possible to have very lax gun laws and a low crime rate. To be clear, the murder rate in Wyoming is low when compared to other states. Compared to most other developed countries, it’s about two or three times higher. We ought to define our terms for statements like this. ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/69 "2015-12-27T23:32:49Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > To be clear, the murder rate in Wyoming is low when compared to other states. Compared to most other developed countries, it’s about two or three times higher. > > We ought to define our terms for statements like this. There you go again. “Developed countries”. Of 218 total countries in the world, Wyoming has a lower or equal homicide rate than 147 of them. I’m pretty sure Wyoming has looser gun control than all of them. You miss the point entirely. I’ll say it one more time: 1. If you are free to selectively choose what locales and factors you include in your comparisons, you can arrive at any conclusion you like. Population density, race factors, religious make up, cultural history, etc. all play a role. Saying that the United States has a higher homicide rate than your hand-picked countries, so we need gun control, makes about as much sense as saying because US blacks have a a homicide rate nine times that of the population at large, we should expel blacks. 2. At the largest level possible, with nothing factored out, the United States has a lower homicide rate than half countries in the world. 3. At the medium level, there is no correlation within the Unites States between the amount of gun control and homicide rate by state. 4. At the small level, the homicide rate in my town is zero. We pretty much all have guns. (My personal homicide/suicide/accident rate is also zero.) ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/70 "2015-12-27T23:40:37Z")
The Mistake of Only Comparing US Murder Rates to “Developed” Countries: > **[The Mistake of Only Comparing US Murder Rates to "Developed" Countries | Ryan...](https://mises.org/wire/mistake-only-comparing-us-murder-rates-developed-countries)** > > Much of the political thinking about violence in the United States comes from unfavorable comparisons between the United States and a series of cherry-picked countries with lower murder rates and with fewer guns per capita. We’ve all seen it many... ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/71 "2015-12-28T00:12:21Z")
Well, I guess we’re better than Guatemala but not as good as Belgium, then. You’re very convincing when you cite the crypto-racist Von Mises Institute! ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/72 "2015-12-28T00:15:45Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Well, I guess we’re better than Guatemala but not as good as Belgium, then. You’re very convincing when you cite the crypto-racist Von Mises Institute! Racism. I see. You have me now. I waste my time. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/73 "2015-12-28T01:13:52Z")
After a while, you can feel all 48 ounces weighing you down on one side, you feel you’re going to develop scoliosis, and wonder why the heck didn’t you just leave it at home. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/74 "2015-12-28T01:24:18Z")
> [@ChickenLegs](#): > > One thing you can say about Wyoming: It is demonstrably possible to have very lax gun laws and a low crime rate. Yes - you just need to have virtually no urban population of any significance. I wonder if that’s applicable across a nation of 350 million people. ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/75 "2015-12-28T01:54:09Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > Yes - you just need to have virtually no urban population of any significance. I wonder if that’s applicable across a nation of 350 million people. Are you and Ravenman the same person? You both seem to have the great difficulty understanding my most basic point, no matter how many different ways I make it. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/76 "2015-12-28T02:25:51Z")
I understand it just fine, I just don’t find it that pertinent, since it’s basically agnostic on learning from any situation. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/77 "2015-12-28T05:07:28Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > I understand it just fine, I just don’t find it that pertinent, since it’s basically agnostic on learning from any situation. I don’t really follow his point. He’s saying that we can’t compare places because there are so many differences between any of them; and then goes on to say how much better crime is in Wyoming all because of it’s gun laws. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/78 "2015-12-28T06:31:19Z")
> [@Oddball\_92](#): > > I believe it would make me more of a target. :smack: Not that argument again. I’ve seen no data that there is an epidemic of OCers being targeted. If anything I believe the opposite to be true. I open carry when I walk my dogs and things like that. My belief is if someone is looking to commit a robbery they’re going to see I’m ready to rock & roll and decide to rob someone else. While I’ve heard of open carriers getting robbed for their gun, it doesn’t actually happen very often at all. If good people being armed is a deterrent to crime, wouldn’t open carry be even more so? After all, uniformed policemen open carry all day. When was the last time one of us were held up?😉 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/79 "2015-12-28T06:53:26Z")
Have we had any instances of wild west style gunfights breaking out when there is open carry? I have not heard of such. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338/80 "2015-12-28T10:10:49Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I don’t really follow his point. He’s saying that we can’t compare places because there are so many differences between any of them; and then goes on to say how much better crime is in Wyoming all **because** of it’s gun laws. [Emphasis mine] That’s the key part you are misunderstanding! He is not saying that the crime rate is better _because_ of it’s gun laws. > [@](#): > > You can no more make crime rate comparisons between Wyoming and Canadian provinces, **based solely on guns laws** , than you can between the United States and hand-picked countries of your choice. [Emphasis mine] This is all he is saying: > [@](#): > > It is demonstrably possible to have very lax gun laws and a low crime rate. He is saying that the crime rate is better _and_ it has very lax gun laws. He just said its possible to have very lax gun laws and a low crime rate. He didn’t say that the crime rate was an effect of the lax gun laws. He didn’t say that it was impossible to have lax gun laws and high crime, or strict gun laws and low crime. He’s just pointing out that lax gun laws and low crime rates are not mutually exclusive things. The idea that gun laws alone are the biggest cause or deterrent to crime is simply asinine. The truth is, that gun laws are probably way down at the bottom of the list of things that actually have an effect on an area’s crime rate. Neither Chicago nor Detroit have horrible crime rates _because_ of their strict gun laws. However, those cities are excellent examples of how tightening gun laws does not lead to lower crime rates. There is no cause/effect. There is no _because_. A region’s gun laws have little affect on crime rates compared to other variables such as its demographics, history, culture, socio-economics, etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-gun-carry-is-coming-to-texas/741338.md?page=5)