# Open Heart Surgery WITHOUT Anesthesia: Possible? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 9, 2007, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-heart-surgery-without-anesthesia-possible/407332 "2007-06-09T00:46:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-heart-surgery-without-anesthesia-possible/407332/21 "2007-06-09T14:27:03Z")
[QUOTE=groman] My mother has a vivid memory (you think?) of various dental procedures done without any anesthesia in Soviet Union in the 1950’s. She had a root canal done on a molar when she was 12 without any anesthesia, pain relievers or hypnosis. That was apparently standard practice back then. I personally had a bad (but firmly planted) baby tooth extracted in Russia with no anesthetic when I was a kid – and the sentiment I got from the dentist is that anesthesia takes several years off your life every time 😕 This is common – I’ve met Russian kids who had tonsillectomies without anesthetics because the procedure is so quick that anesthetic was considered to do more harm than good. Nowadays it’s done under local (or under general if you go to a private surgeon rather than entrusting yourself to socialized medicine) [/QUOTE] I had 4 adult teeth pulled when I was 12 without anesthesia. (Right here in River City) The dentist closed the door and told me I’d better not make a sound. I didn’t. But now I go to the [Dental Fears Research](http://apt.allenpress.com/aptonline/?request=get-abstract&issn=0003-3006&volume=045&issue=02&page=0062) clinic now. Peter Milgrom is my dentist and Phil Weinstein holds my had. 🙂 As far are kids having surgeries without anesthesia, until 15 or 20 years ago, many surgeons, here in the US, were convinced that infants didn’t feel pain. A med student I worked with got funding and did the initial study, proving that newborns were negatively impacted during circumcisions without pain control. [End of Highjack] Please return to your regularly scheduled thread[/end] ---
**Author:** ![WoodenTaco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/45deac/32.png) [@WoodenTaco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WoodenTaco)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-heart-surgery-without-anesthesia-possible/407332/22 "2007-06-09T16:32:00Z")
[QUOTE=Priceguy] Did you read **picunurse** ’s post? Do you realize what open-heart surgery entails? [/QUOTE] No, because he posted _after_ me, sheesh. I was incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-heart-surgery-without-anesthesia-possible/407332/23 "2007-06-09T17:16:42Z")
[QUOTE=WoodenTaco] No, because he posted _after_ me, sheesh. I was incorrect. [/QUOTE] BTW, I’m a “she.” 😃 My initial post, explaining open heart surgery was post #4. Yours was #7. ---
**Author:** ![WoodenTaco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/45deac/32.png) [@WoodenTaco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WoodenTaco)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-heart-surgery-without-anesthesia-possible/407332/24 "2007-06-10T05:57:28Z")
[QUOTE=picunurse] BTW, I’m a “she.” 😃 My initial post, explaining open heart surgery was post #4. Yours was #7. [/QUOTE] :smack: I’m just going to quit while I’m far behind. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![BigDTex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@BigDTex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigDTex)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-heart-surgery-without-anesthesia-possible/407332/25 "2014-07-02T21:32:18Z")
Here is a link to the straight scoop on this: > **[Sign Up | LinkedIn](https://www.linkedin.com/groups/Heart-Surgery-hypnosis-no-sedation-2411348.S.199852166)** > > 500 million+ members | Manage your professional identity. Build and engage with your professional network. Access knowledge, insights and opportunities. ---
**Author:** ![PoppaSan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/poppasan/32/189_2.png) [@PoppaSan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoppaSan)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-heart-surgery-without-anesthesia-possible/407332/26 "2014-07-02T21:55:21Z")
> [@BigDTex](#): > > Here is a link to the straight scoop on this: > > [LinkedIn Login, Sign in | LinkedIn](http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Heart-Surgery-hypnosis-no-sedation-2411348.S.199852166) But that wasn’t open heart as most of us picture it. That procedure is done with a catheter as stated at the bottom of this page:[http://www.drhebeler.com/2.2.cryosurgery.htm](http://www.drhebeler.com/2.2.cryosurgery.htm). > [@](#): > > The procedure is performed minimally invasively, requiring only a small incision on the right side of the chest. In all, the surgery takes less than three hours. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-heart-surgery-without-anesthesia-possible/407332/27 "2014-07-02T23:34:43Z")
Last year, I had a stent implanted in an artery, and the surgeon put a probe from my leg through my heart and out the other side into an artery. I was awake the whole time, and didn’t feel a thing The heart itself and the arteries hasveno pain-receptor nerves. There was only a local anesthetic at the spot where the probe went into my thigh. There were times he had to shove so hard with the probe through the arteries, that he was grunting. As long as the surgeon can get to the heart with surgical instruments, there is no need for general anesthetic for procedures directly in the heart itself. Heart surgery itself does not necessarily need anesthetic, but “open heart” implies a fully opened thorax, winch would be something quite different. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-heart-surgery-without-anesthesia-possible/407332/28 "2014-07-02T23:38:59Z")
> [@zut](#): > > My mother works with a woman who claims to be able to control pain with her mind. She’s trained herself so well that she claims not to need any anesthesia during surgery. > > Now, the human mind is capable of wonderful things, and I’d find claims of, say, oral surgery (or some other outpatient-type surgery) w/o anesthesia to be at least plausible. **However, this woman claims to have undergone _open heart surgery_ while completely awake, with no anesthesia.** > > My brother is convinced this is total BS. I’m…well, let’s just say I lean toward asking about it in GQ. > > So. Open heart surgery WITHOUT anesthesia: Possible? Or BS? How did she persuade the surgeons to do it without anesthesia? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-heart-surgery-without-anesthesia-possible/407332/29 "2014-07-03T00:17:16Z")
I have a friend who is an MD who used to be a surgeon who went into medical hypnosis full time. He has performed surgical operations while people were under hypnosis, hypnotized people for surgery for other doctors. Without traditional anesthetic. Whether this extends to open heart surgery, I do not know, but I would be highly doubtful. I’ve had open heart surgery and hypnosis (by this doctor) but not at the same time. How one could be under hypnosis for six hours and while on a heart/lung machine is beyond me. I’ll ask. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-heart-surgery-without-anesthesia-possible/407332/30 "2014-07-03T00:43:37Z")
The Aztecs did it all the time. 😉 John Adams’s daughter, Abigail, had a [masectomy done without anasthesia](http://www.shsu.edu/~pin_www/T@S/2002/NabbyAdamsEssay.html), since back then, there wasn’t a way to anasthesize a patient, other than lots and lots of alcohol. It seems she was pretty stoic about it, but the surgery failed to remove the entire tumor, and she died shortly thereafter. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-heart-surgery-without-anesthesia-possible/407332/31 "2014-07-03T03:13:02Z")
I have had extensive dental work done without anisthetic, root canals and extractions. My limit was 2 extractions, I just wasn’t strong enough to endure the third. Funny thing was that after each one I got this feeling of exhileration that left me tempted to go for the third. At first my dentist was afraid to try it but after our first visit he seemed like he kind of got into it. He was extremly gentle considering. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-heart-surgery-without-anesthesia-possible/407332/32 "2014-07-07T17:27:29Z")
Okay, I’ve heard back from my friend, whose husband is the hypnosis doctor. > [@](#): > > I had two, separate knee replacement surgeries- one with and one without a general anesthesia. the doctor strongly advised me to stay conscious the second time around to avoid some of the side effects of the drugs the first time. Both my surgeon and [husband] agree that the more you complicate an invasive procedure with drugs, the higher the complications and side effects can be. Being awake and watching my surgery the 2nd time was a great experience. I felt NO PAIN, though, because I had a local block and an IV drip with something to keep me “detached” from what was happening. > ‘ > I don’t think a candidate for open heart surgery would WANT to be completely un-anesthetized and I am pretty certain no doctor would agree to the surgery without anesthesia either. BUT it would be my choice to be conscious with a local block. Training with hypnosis beforehand in any case, lowers the risk of hysteria and fixation about what’s happening to one’s body so the assisting personnel standing by don’t have to put you out if you freak out mid-proceedure. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-heart-surgery-without-anesthesia-possible/407332/33 "2014-07-07T17:36:07Z")
It isn’t of course “open heart surgery”, but this guy pioneered the use of catheters inserted into a vein and snaking into the heart - by doing it on himself. :eek: > **[Werner Forssmann](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Forssmann)** > > Werner Theodor Otto Forßmann (Forssmann in English; .mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}German pronunciation: \[ˈvɛʁnɐ ˈfɔʁsˌman\] ⓘ; 29 August 1904 – 1 June 1979) was a German researcher and physician from Germany who shared the 1956 Nobel Prize in Medicine (with Andre Frederic Cournand and Dickinson W. Richards) for developing a procedur... > [@](#): > > He hypothesized that a catheter could be inserted directly into the heart, for such applications as directly delivering drugs, injecting radiopaque dyes, or measuring blood pressure. The fear at the time was that such an intrusion into the heart would be fatal.[2] To prove his point, he decided to try the experiment on himself. > > In 1929, while working in Eberswalde, he performed the first human cardiac catheterisation. He ignored his department chief and persuaded the OR nurse in charge of the sterile supplies, Gerda Ditzen, to assist him. She agreed, but only on the promise that he would do it on her rather than on himself. However, Forssmann tricked her by restraining her to the operating table and pretending to locally anaesthetise and cut her arm whilst actually doing it on himself.[3] He anesthetized his own lower arm in the cubital region and inserted a uretic catheter into his antecubital vein, threading it partly along before releasing Ditzen (who at this point realised the catheter was not in her arm) and telling her to call the X-Ray department. They walked some distance to the X-ray department on the floor below where under the guidance of a fluoroscope he advanced the catheter the full 60 cm into his right ventricular cavity. This was then recorded on X-Ray film showing the catheter lying in his right atrium.[3] He used a local on his own arm … this still strikes me as totally insane. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-heart-surgery-without-anesthesia-possible/407332/34 "2014-07-07T20:44:23Z")
Zombies don’t need anesthesia. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-heart-surgery-without-anesthesia-possible/407332/35 "2016-06-01T15:08:20Z")
Ok double zombie, but I came across this in [Cracked](http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1604-major-surgery-with-no-painkillers-5-things-i-learned.html) And then we have [QUOTE=KarlGauss] In “real” open heart surgery, at least the way it’s currently practised, the sternum (breast bone) is sawed open down the midline and then pulled apart. And that’s just for starters. As you might expect, then, I have my doubts about her claim [/QUOTE] . In the article he claims that his sternum was cracked without anesthesia and with music and happy thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-heart-surgery-without-anesthesia-possible/407332/36 "2016-06-01T15:54:28Z")
> [@picunurse](#): > > I had 4 adult teeth pulled when I was 12 without anesthesia. (Right here in River City)… I get most fillings, crowns, etc. done without anaesthetic. The doctor jokes about me being “soooo tough”, but I tell him “No, I’m just a wuss about having numb lips and drooling for an hour.” I can’t say I _control_ the pain with my mind, it’s more of a zen thing (“Wow, this is really hurting… my body, but hey, here’s my mind, and it’s still its usually quirky self. Hi, Mind, can I hang out here while my body’s going through some crap?..”) But seriously? Anything major and I’d ask “Can I get gas for a while just for fun, and then knock me out til you’re done?” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-heart-surgery-without-anesthesia-possible/407332/37 "2016-06-01T16:03:18Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Ok double zombie, but I came across this in [Cracked](http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1604-major-surgery-with-no-painkillers-5-things-i-learned.html) > > And then we have > . > > In the article he claims that his sternum was cracked without anesthesia and with music and happy thoughts. But if you read the article you find out that, while he wasn’t knocked out, they did use a local anesthesia. And he still felt a shit-load of pain. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-heart-surgery-without-anesthesia-possible/407332/38 "2016-06-01T16:11:27Z")
…which did not go to the bone, which is the point **KarlGauss** was making. ---
**Author:** ![duncs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@duncs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duncs)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-heart-surgery-without-anesthesia-possible/407332/39 "2016-06-03T10:02:00Z")
> [@groman](#): > > My mother has a vivid memory (you think?) of various dental procedures done without any anesthesia in Soviet Union in the 1950’s. She had a root canal done on a molar when she was 12 without any anesthesia, pain relievers or hypnosis. That was apparently standard practice back then. I personally had a bad (but firmly planted) baby tooth extracted in Russia with no anesthetic when I was a kid – and the sentiment I got from the dentist is that anesthesia takes several years off your life every time 😕 This is common – I’ve met Russian kids who had tonsillectomies without anesthetics because the procedure is so quick that anesthetic was considered to do more harm than good. Nowadays it’s done under local (or under general if you go to a private surgeon rather than entrusting yourself to socialized medicine) I had root canal work done on one of my molars before having a crown fitted just last year with no anaesthetic. It was uncomfortable, but not particularly painful. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-heart-surgery-without-anesthesia-possible/407332/40 "2016-06-03T11:32:46Z")
Why would a surgeon in America agree to do open heart surgery without anesthetic? I cannot see what the upside is, and there could be million-dollar lawsuits. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-heart-surgery-without-anesthesia-possible/407332.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-heart-surgery-without-anesthesia-possible/407332.md?page=3)