# Open letter to Bricker **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 6, 2008, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263 "2008-09-06T00:51:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/201 "2008-09-09T14:54:09Z")
> [@ManiacMan](#): > > Plus it gives you Dems alot of talking points for every election cycle for the next 50 years. You all should be happy and pissing your pants over that… No, actually, I’d be far happier if Bush had been competent to begin with. Not everyone views politics as a sports rivalry. ---
**Author:** ![ManiacMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b782af/32.png) [@ManiacMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManiacMan)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/202 "2008-09-09T15:09:03Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > No, actually, I’d be far happier if Bush had been competent to begin with. Not everyone views politics as a sports rivalry. I would have been far happier if Clinton had been competent to begin with too, but that’s the way the cookie crumbles. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/203 "2008-09-09T15:10:36Z")
> [@ManiacMan](#): > > I would have been far happier if Clinton had been competent to begin with too, but that’s the way the cookie crumbles. So let’s just hate the other side and make weak-ass excuses for our own, is that it? ---
**Author:** ![ManiacMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b782af/32.png) [@ManiacMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManiacMan)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/204 "2008-09-09T15:18:33Z")
> [@CircleofWillis](#): > > As a… weak… “liberal” Republican (fiscally conservative but pro-choice and pro-gay marriage, etc ,etc,), these are the kinds of statements that prevent me from voting Democrat. Yeah, it’s one guy on a message board, but this is the message that I personally get from the Democratic Party as a whole. > > I am the Republican that the Dems could have on their side, if they really wanted me. I WANT to vote for Obama, I really do. I WANT a change. I am embarrassed by what my party has become. I even nearly gave my mother (a member of the local Democratic board) a heart attack by announcing to her that I actually intended to vote Democrat this year. > > The problem, however, is the repeated “Anyone but Bush” and “Republicans, of all stripes, are evil” themes. This year’s election is more of the same. The whole “CHANGE” meme is about changing politics. Since the DNC nomination, however, it’s been all the same. Obama is not Bush, McCain is just more Bush, the “changed” policies are the same policies that the Dems have been trotting out for years and frankly they don’t do anything more for me now than they have since I started voting. > > I am slowly coming to realize that Obama is NOT about change, but more that that’s his slogan, his hook. He is a Democrat, with the same Democratic slogans and ideals. It’s NOT a change. It would more benefit me… and my ideals… to change my party from within than to cross party lines for someone who is just more of the same in a different suit. Ya I agree…I would _consider_ voting for Obama because I too am a weak Republican, but Obama isn’t about change anymore than Clinton was. Its just more smoke and mirrors. Ambigous statements that can be whatever people want them to be. Such utter bullshit and so much more of the same! Just another manufactured candidate is all he is who probably couldn’t say “no” to running for president even if he wanted to. He is like something from pop-culture music artists…a little bit of talent siezed upon by the likes of people who build up others too dumb or too much of an ego-maniac to say no. At least to me McCain seems strong enough to tell these kinds of people to go fuck off…Obama is a hostage. ---
**Author:** ![ManiacMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b782af/32.png) [@ManiacMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManiacMan)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/205 "2008-09-09T15:21:04Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > So let’s just hate the other side and make weak-ass excuses for our own, is that it? I don’t hate the other side at all. When Clinton was president I didn’t like it, but the man was our leader so I grinned and beared it as best as I could. But eventually he proved to me to be just another slob who wasn’t worth a damn…well worth something to whoever could spin the best. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/206 "2008-09-09T15:24:23Z")
> [@ManiacMan](#): > > At least to me McCain seems strong enough to tell these kinds of people to go fuck off…Obama is a hostage. The irony is so thick you can cut it with a knife. McCain’s [selling out all his principles](http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/flipflops), if they were his to begin with, just to make himself seem more palatable to the right. And Obama is the hostage? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/207 "2008-09-09T15:29:43Z")
> [@CircleofWillis](#): > > I am slowly coming to realize that Obama is NOT about change, but more that that’s his slogan, his hook. What has brought about this realization? Just that Obama wants to change how America conducts foreign relations? That he wants to change and not torture? That he wants to change and close Guantanamo? That he wants to change and put more resources into alternative fuels? That he wants to change by putting the envirnonment and the EPA back to work? That he wants to change the election by not involving families? There are dozens of things Obama has stated that he would change, and he’s done so with concrete examples of things he would do to effect that change. I can’t help you “realize” much, but at least get the basic facts right. ---
**Author:** ![CircleofWillis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/54ee81/32.png) [@CircleofWillis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CircleofWillis)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/208 "2008-09-09T15:39:54Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > What has brought about this realization? Just that Obama wants to change how America conducts foreign relations? That he wants to change and not torture? That he wants to change and close Guantanamo? That he wants to change and put more resources into alternative fuels? That he wants to change by putting the envirnonment and the EPA back to work? That he wants to change the election by not involving families? > > There are dozens of things Obama has stated that he would change, and he’s done so with concrete examples of things he would do to effect that change. > > I can’t help you “realize” much, but at least get the basic facts right. These are not new changes or new proposals. These are the same things that were rejected in Kerry 4 years ago… and Gore 4 years before that. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/209 "2008-09-09T15:54:27Z")
> [@ManiacMan](#): > > Ya I agree…I would _consider_ voting for Obama because I too am a weak Republican, but Obama isn’t about change anymore than Clinton was. Its just more smoke and mirrors. Ambigous statements that can be whatever people want them to be. Such utter bullshit and so much more of the same! Just another manufactured candidate is all he is who probably couldn’t say “no” to running for president even if he wanted to. He is like something from pop-culture music artists…a little bit of talent siezed upon by the likes of people who build up others too dumb or too much of an ego-maniac to say no. At least to me McCain seems strong enough to tell these kinds of people to go fuck off…Obama is a hostage. Out of interest - which people are these pulling the strings? ---
**Author:** ![ManiacMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b782af/32.png) [@ManiacMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManiacMan)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/210 "2008-09-09T16:00:02Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Out of interest - which people are these pulling the strings? Oh I can’t name any names…nondislcosure and all that. ---
**Author:** ![ManiacMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b782af/32.png) [@ManiacMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManiacMan)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/211 "2008-09-09T16:02:07Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > The irony is so thick you can cut it with a knife. McCain’s [selling out all his principles](http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/flipflops), if they were his to begin with, just to make himself seem more palatable to the right. And Obama is the hostage? Left-wing site. ---
**Author:** ![ManiacMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b782af/32.png) [@ManiacMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManiacMan)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/212 "2008-09-09T16:03:41Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > What has brought about this realization? Just that Obama wants to change how America conducts foreign relations? That he wants to change and not torture? That he wants to change and close Guantanamo? That he wants to change and put more resources into alternative fuels? That he wants to change by putting the envirnonment and the EPA back to work? That he wants to change the election by not involving families? > > There are dozens of things Obama has stated that he would change, and he’s done so with concrete examples of things he would do to effect that change. > > I can’t help you “realize” much, but at least get the basic facts right. He won’t change anything. And when he doesn’t he will blame the republicans for stopping him. Same old song and dance. Same line of bullshit that’s been going on since George Washington… ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/213 "2008-09-09T16:07:50Z")
> [@ManiacMan](#): > > Left-wing site. Perhaps, but it links to off-site news articles to back itself up. Something you can’t really be bothered to do yourself, apparently. You’re not worth any more time. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/214 "2008-09-09T16:11:24Z")
> [@ManiacMan](#): > > Oh I can’t name any names…nondislcosure and all that. Well, while it matters less to me as a non-American, i’d still like to know what the policies and beliefs of the President of the U.S. would be. If Obama’s a mere puppet, I certainly would like to know who the puppeteers are so I can look at their records and history instead. Doesn’t that seem reasonable to you? ---
**Author:** ![ManiacMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b782af/32.png) [@ManiacMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManiacMan)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/215 "2008-09-09T16:11:35Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Perhaps, but it links to off-site news articles to back itself up. Something you can’t really be bothered to do yourself, apparently. You’re not worth any more time. Not interested in arguing with you…not worth my time. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/216 "2008-09-09T16:12:51Z")
> [@ManiacMan](#): > > Oh I can’t name any names…nondislcosure and all that. Can’t tell, is this the infamous “my post is my cite” or the more traditional “I’d tell you, but then I’d have to kill you” dodge? Anyhow, I always find it interesting when folks won’t back up what they say, but then question to the max anyone who does. ---
**Author:** ![ManiacMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b782af/32.png) [@ManiacMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManiacMan)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/217 "2008-09-09T16:19:51Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Well, while it matters less to me as a non-American, i’d still like to know what the policies and beliefs of the President of the U.S. would be. If Obama’s a mere puppet, I certainly would like to know who the puppeteers are so I can look at their records and history instead. Doesn’t that seem reasonable to you? So let me see…as much as people want to believe that politics is a squeaky-clean honest and benevolent activity it just isn’t. It isn’t possible to name names about who is the puppeteer anymore than it is possible to name names when people angrily say “that damn media”. It is impossible to put ones finger directly on something specific with something as complex and as diverse as “politics”. Just trust me on this…it isn’t a realm of do-gooders who do it out of the goodness of their own hearts. Maybe some people who first get into politics all bright eyed and bushy-tailed and naive. Maybe a few exceptions are out there, but I have yet to really see one let alone meet one. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/218 "2008-09-09T16:32:50Z")
> [@ManiacMan](#): > > So let me see…as much as people want to believe that politics is a squeaky-clean honest and benevolent activity it just isn’t. It isn’t possible to name names about who is the puppeteer anymore than it is possible to name names when people angrily say “that damn media”. It is impossible to put ones finger directly on something specific with something as complex and as diverse as “politics”. Just trust me on this…it isn’t a realm of do-gooders who do it out of the goodness of their own hearts. Maybe some people who first get into politics all bright eyed and bushy-tailed and naive. Maybe a few exceptions are out there, but I have yet to really see one let alone meet one. I’m confused, then. It seems that your quarrel with Obama is that he’s either an empty suit or a self-aggrandiser, and the true controllers are unknown and indeed unknowable. And yet, you also believe that the Obama campaign isn’t truly about change, and more than that his entire positions are ambiguous and manufactured. How is it that you’re unable to say who these puppeteers are, yet entirely able to understand their existence, their plans, and indeed the nature of all the positions they truly hold? Wouldn’t that require some knowledge of the history and beliefs of those puppeteers? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/219 "2008-09-09T16:33:41Z")
> [@CircleofWillis](#): > > These are not new changes or new proposals. Ahhh, I see. You said CHANGE, but you meant NEW STUFF WE’VE NEVER HEARD OF BEFORE. Now it makes sense. You actually want Obama to be OUTSIDE the mainstream before you vote for him. Intriguing idea. ---
**Author:** ![CircleofWillis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/54ee81/32.png) [@CircleofWillis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CircleofWillis)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/220 "2008-09-09T16:37:48Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Ahhh, I see. You said CHANGE, but you meant NEW STUFF WE’VE NEVER HEARD OF BEFORE. > > Now it makes sense. You actually want Obama to be OUTSIDE the mainstream before you vote for him. > > Intriguing idea. Yeah.. ya know.. ACTUAL change.. not just …“Well, I’m not Bush.”… that approach didn’t work for Kerry either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263.md?page=12)