# Open letter to Bricker **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 6, 2008, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263 "2008-09-06T00:51:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/81 "2008-09-06T03:21:28Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Don’t read 'em. I’ll get over it. The trouble is your posts are like car crashes. You know you shouldn’t look at 'em, but for some reason you feel compelled to do it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/82 "2008-09-06T03:21:31Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > It is weird. Your OP, hell all your posts, would carry a lot more weight if you practiced what you preach. You, and I, both want the SDMB to be more about debate than shit flinging. Yet here you are, flinging shit with the best of them. And enjoying it. Just strikes me as odd. Ok. It is. Let me try to rationalize it. It may be justification after the fact, or bullshit, but here goes. I’ve tried to be better since about 2005 when I left for a while. I told myself I would only come back if I could make my interractions more positive. Sometimes I succeeded. Sometimes not. I’ve also tried not to hold grudges but look at everybody fresh each time I encounter them. Sometimes I’ve succeeded. Sometimes not. I don’t want everybody to pretend to be kissy-kissy nice nice all the time. In this thread I think I’ve succeeded in holding a line. Have I been insulting? Sure. To me, it feels reasonable. I don’t feel hate, and I don’t think I’m engaging anybody in open character asassination, and I think there’s a line there. What I’m trying to do with Lissener is like the prisoners dilemma. He showed up with an insult, and I returned it, but I’ve been trying to send a signal with each insult we’ve that I would be open to friendlier terms. It’s hard to make that come across on a message board, but that is what I am seeking to convey in our interraction. I may be failing, but that is what I’m trying to do. Anyway, honestly, there is no venom on my side towards Lissener here. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/83 "2008-09-06T03:23:49Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t see it the way you see it. The other difference is that I don’t think your evil because you disagree with me. Right. Another convenient revisionist. **Starving Artist** pining for the halcyon 50s, before ‘liberal influence’ caused all the ills of today. You, perfectly fine supporting the sleazy political machine who started a war on lies and continue their assassination political…fuck it. There’s no point. Done. I’m sick to puking of the weary, terribly misunderstood ‘conservatives’ on this board. Whine yourselves sick. Screw over your rotted party, screw over the country (again) and crow about it, set yourselves up as religious and social arbiters. Knock yourselves out. None of you are worth one second more of my time or energy. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/84 "2008-09-06T03:32:12Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > None of you are worth one second more of my time or energy. The truth and your integrity are also apparently unworthy of your time and energy, or I’d expect you to retract the lies you just made about me. That being the case kind of invalidates the rest of your offering, imo. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/85 "2008-09-06T03:35:17Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] I think ( **Bricker’s** ) words over the last ten years speak for themselves. Your record as a thoughful debater, humorous, informative trivia master who’s more than willing to poke fun at himself, **as well as your flexible mind** [/QUOTE] Now _that_ hits the nail on the head. **Bricker** ’s mind is a veritable Slinky™. Especially when it comes to being a concern troll and trying to evade responsibility for it. **Scylla** , I can remember being on your side in debates years ago when we were getting hammered by twits, and neither of us felt the need to indulge in self-pity or administer self-indulgent group hugs. Pray for a Democratic administration and Congress to take power. The resulting missteps and screwups (unavoidable, if perhaps not as blatant as during the height of Bushmania) will give thoughtful conservatives and spittle-flecked right-wingers alike new life and energy, and even this board will attain a new equilibrium. Try to hold things together until then, huh? 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/86 "2008-09-06T03:42:39Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I may be failing, but that is what I’m trying to do. Oddly enough, I agree with a bit of what you say. There is a line that modern “debate” has to balance between being worthwhile and being, for lack of a better word, incredibly boring. I belong and comment at a few websites that focus on more legal issues, and those debates tend to be, more often than not, boring. Very interesting and I learn a lot, but they’re boring. And there are other boards I’ve visited where the “debate” is nothing more than partisan shit flinging with absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever. But what I like about the SDMB is that it has, for the most part, struck a balance between those two extremes. The debates are interesting, but not boring. And are a step above the partisan hackery of some of the more… idiotic websites. It is a precarious balance, and one that changes almost daily. And the closer to election time we get, or when big news happens (like Palin being nominated) the more that balance tilts toward hackery. It’s natural. It’s happened pretty much every election, every big new event, in the history of America. But if you’re going to bitch about the partisanship or the devolvement into shit slinging, you better make sure your hands are clean. And I’m really having trouble with the idea that yours are clean. If you want debate, by all means start a debate. But it seems, and the same holds true with Bricker’s thread, that you actually would rather get into the shit slinging, then don’t pine away for the good old days of honest debate. This is really just a longwinded way of saying: If you aint part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. And, to my mind, you and Bricker, have not been part of the solution. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/87 "2008-09-06T03:42:51Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > What I’m trying to do with Lissener is like the prisoners dilemma. He showed up with an insult, and I returned it, but I’ve been trying to send a signal with each insult we’ve that I would be open to friendlier terms. It’s hard to make that come across on a message board, but that is what I am seeking to convey in our interraction. > > I may be failing, but that is what I’m trying to do. > > Anyway, honestly, there is no venom on my side towards Lissener here. Listen. There’s another poster hereabouts who has made something of a Board career of being a gold-plated asshole to people and then saying that actually what s/he feels for the opponent is friendship or affection, and there shouldn’t be any hard feelings. This is announced after the vicious insults are offered, of course, just as your rationalization is in this thread. Unsurprisingly, this reads as insincerity at best and cowardice at worst. To date, I don’t think either of those are your reputation, whatever else your reputation may be. So I would respectfully suggest that you reconsider undermining the sincerity of what you say, since by doing so you are inviting the rest of us to stop taking you seriously. Now, maybe you and **lissener** really enjoy your little bouts of spanky-spanky smoochy-smoochy – though I point out that **lissener** has not endorsed your “we keed! we keed!” gloss on the relationship – but if that’s the case: get a room. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/88 "2008-09-06T03:45:47Z")
Funny - all those people who claimed to like **Bricker** so much sure didn’t cut him much slack. People like **Diogenes** can post all kinds of stuff here, and posters will, to their credit, call them on it - but will you see a pileon like you saw with **Bricker** just now? There are different rules. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/89 "2008-09-06T03:47:21Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > Right. Another convenient revisionist. > You, perfectly fine supporting the sleazy political machine who started a war on lies and continue their assassination political… Not a word of truth there. > [@TVeblen](#): > > Done. Me, too…with you, that is! Sorry I made the mistake of thinking the **TVeblen** I’ve previously thought of as a liberal but one who espoused those views moderately is really an intractible hothead with no capacity for rational thought. Vote Democrat! (Because drugs, criminality, widespread STD’s, a shitty, ineffectual educational system and a society where everyone acts like assholes isn’t really all that bad!) ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/90 "2008-09-06T03:54:58Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > O > This is really just a longwinded way of saying: If you aint part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. And, to my mind, you and Bricker, have not been part of the solution. I suppose that’s fair. My hands aren’t clean. “Do as I say, not as I do,” is hardly an enviable credo. **Bricker’s** a genuinely good guy, imo. He needed a show of support, and I felt the ilk had pushed things to far in the pile-on. Jesus and Ghandi were busy, so you got stuck with me. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/91 "2008-09-06T03:58:27Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > Now, maybe you and **lissener** really enjoy your little bouts of spanky-spanky smoochy-smoochy – though I point out that **lissener** has not endorsed your “we keed! we keed!” gloss on the relationship. You’d have to ask him. For me, it’s more ritualized and repeated to the point of having lost all meaning besides comforting familiarity. Wouldn’t have brought it up, but for Hamlet, who asked. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/92 "2008-09-06T04:03:40Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > People like **Diogenes** can post all kinds of stuff here, and posters will, to their credit, call them on it - but will you see a pileon like you saw with **Bricker** just now? > > There are different rules. “I expect it from the other kids,” teacher told me once. (Never have any two shoelaces been so goddamned interesting as mine at that moment.) “They don’t \*know \*yet how to behave. They don’t _know_ how to sit still, and share, and keep their hands out of their diapers. But _you_,” she sighed, “for chrissake, you’re a _teacher’s aide_.” ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/93 "2008-09-06T04:05:46Z")
Oddly enough, it appears assholeness crosses political lines. As does integrity. Would that we had more of the latter and less of the former. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/94 "2008-09-06T04:06:16Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > …Vote Democrat! (Because drugs, criminality, widespread STD’s, a shitty, ineffectual educational system and a society where everyone acts like assholes isn’t really all that bad!) Now, you’ve gone too far! Too far, sir! Too far! I demand a retraction! (Can I borrow that line for a minute, **Scylla**?) It was the hippies who brought Western Civ to its goat-sucking knees, not some bunch of wussy-ass Democrats! And, Lord God, how it needed it! ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/95 "2008-09-06T04:10:06Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > You’d have to ask him. For me, it’s more ritualized and repeated to the point of having lost all meaning besides comforting familiarity. My point is that you can hardly expect the rest of us, who don’t know or care what your history is with him, to be aware of that what you say is mere comforting familiarity. You insult him, sometimes grossly, and then you almost literally invite people to dismiss or ignore you, by conceding that what you say is actually meaningless. It’s not my job, or anyone else’s, to suss out when you’re serious and when you aren’t. Say what you mean and mean what you say. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/96 "2008-09-06T04:13:09Z")
Where’s all this whiny self-pitying flatulence coming from? It’s impressively pathetic. I feel so sorry for **Scylla** , and **Bricker** , and even the tag-along **Starving for Attention** , to be reduced to such whimpering. I keep looking for a teacher to come and tell them to go and splash cold water on their faces. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/97 "2008-09-06T04:14:27Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Vote Democrat! (Because drugs, criminality, widespread STD’s, a shitty, ineffectual educational system and a society where everyone acts like assholes isn’t really all that bad!) It’s about time someone brought well-reasoned and articulate argument back to this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/98 "2008-09-06T04:14:47Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > … I’ve previously thought of as a liberal but one who espoused those views moderately … > > Vote Democrat! (Because drugs, criminality, widespread STD’s, a shitty, ineffectual educational system and a society where everyone acts like assholes isn’t really all that bad!) This is, of course, the moderate conservative view. I am, also of course, fairly bewildered as to why the country has gone to hell in a handbasket in your view when Republicans have been President for 28 of the last 40 years. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/99 "2008-09-06T04:22:50Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > **Bricker’s** a genuinely good guy, imo. He is, agreed. That has nothing to do with the fact that in the other thread he was a jerk and was asking for a pile-on. We’re all jerks from time to time, and it’s his turn in the barrel. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263/100 "2008-09-06T04:26:28Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > My point is that you can hardly expect the rest of us, who don’t know or care what your history is with him, to be aware of that what you say is mere comforting familiarity. You insult him, sometimes grossly, and then you almost literally invite people to dismiss or ignore you, by conceding that what you say is actually meaningless. It’s not my job, or anyone else’s, to suss out when you’re serious and when you aren’t. Say what you mean and mean what you say. When Jesus said “Owww! FUCK! Cactus!” They didn’t put that in the Bible. I don’t think I’ve “grossly” insulted him. I’ve been holding back. If you reread it, I believe you’ll see that he’s been far more aggressive than I. Anyway, I’m actually trying to use a strategy here which is that I mirror whatever he does taking the edge off of it while giving signals and opportunities to lighten the tone. On top of that, I’m also saying exactly what I’m doing in case my subtletly is lost. I am actively trying for a less hostile interraction with Lissener. Gimme a fucking a break! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-bricker/462263.md?page=6)