# Open Letter To The Homophobe's I've Met.. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 24, 2003, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625 "2003-07-24T14:14:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/21 "2003-07-25T01:09:00Z")
My grandmother called the couch a “davenport” … I still knew what she meant. ---
**Author:** ![Already\_in\_Use](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@Already\_in\_Use](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Already_in_Use)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/22 "2003-07-25T01:18:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by modro \* > **I don’t go to wild sex parties** Then keep in mind to forward any invitations to yours truly ;). ---
**Author:** ![Jervoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/23 "2003-07-25T01:44:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Windwalker \* > **I must also protest to the way homophobe is being used as a general term for anyone who is against homosexuals. Homophobe implies fear of homosexuals, which is not always the case.** Time to update your dictionary. While the Greek rook _phobos_ may indicate “fear”, -phobia is now taken to mean an extreme abnormal fear OR aversion to. In fact, the Merriam-Webster defines “homophobia” as the “irrational fear of, aversion to, discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.” I might say that this argument – I’m no homophobe: I’m not _afraid_ of gays! – really strikes me as terribly silly.\* A simple glance at a modern dictionary would show “homophobia” is not just restricted to “fear”; it has a much wider accepted meaning, which clearly encompasses the usage taken by **modro**. - Want some proof that the meaning of words change with time? Look up some of the meanings the word “silly” has taken over the years. ---
**Author:** ![modro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@modro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/modro)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/24 "2003-07-25T02:47:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Windwalker \* > \*\*I must also protest to the way homophobe is being used as a general term for anyone who is against homosexuals. Homophobe implies fear of homosexuals, which is not always the case. Something like “anti-homosexual” or “anti-gay bigot” would work just as well and be more accurate, methinks. I mean, you don’t call folks who hate black people “negrophobes”, even if some do fear blacks. You’d call them racists or bigots. Too bad “orientationist” is too bulky to make it in popular usage. > > No doubt some folks fear gays, or fear becoming gay, but there are people who genuinely think it immoral, evil, or whatever. Don’t give them any moral advantage by mislabeling them. \*\* I must say, I’m sorry. I had no idea that the entire point I was trying to make was made moot by my choice of the word homophobe. Amazing how quickly moral issues can be broken down to arguments over word choice, isn’t it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![modro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@modro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/modro)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/25 "2003-07-25T02:52:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Already in Use \* > \*\*Then keep in mind to forward any invitations to yours truly ;). \*\* I’d hand all of the invitations over to you, but I’m afraid I’d be risking a hernia, as there are so many of them. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/26 "2003-07-25T04:59:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by modro \* > \*\*I must say, I’m sorry. I had no idea that the entire point I was trying to make was made moot by my choice of the word homophobe. Amazing how quickly moral issues can be broken down to arguments over word choice, isn’t it. > > 😉 \*\* Think of it as evolution to a new topic. New evolution: every time I hear some one speak out against universal marriage because marriage is designed to protect a family with children, I get purely enraged. So MY marriage is invalid because because I have not produced another gas-guzzling waste producing selfish bigotted US citizen? Then why should my marriage be legal? ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/27 "2003-07-25T06:11:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jlzania \* > \*\*Ah yes, the gay man perceived as the indiscriminate fuck machine. \*\* Well, in fairness, I think they may get perceived as indiscriminate fuck machines more because they’re guys than because they’re gays. Looking around my office, the single guys here are all pretty indiscriminate about where they’ll put their dicks, the only difference being that some of them want to put them into 90% of the women they see (even Martha Stewart if they’re in their normal state of non-sobriety), and the others want to put them into 90% of the men they see. According to the [theory](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=198005) put forward in **Ferrous** ’s recent Pit thread, many straight men think that gay men will view them the way they (the straight men) view other women. Personally, I think there’s a lot of merit to this, so the guys who instantly get defensive about fending off advances may be telling you something rather interesting about their own habits. (sorry if the spelling or coding are screwed up, my browser isn’t letting me preview) ---
**Author:** ![hilltopper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c68b51/32.png) [@hilltopper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hilltopper)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/28 "2003-07-25T15:58:03Z")
Call me a homophobe because I don’t want a massage from a man if you want. But to call me a homophobe because I reference a “gay lifestyle.” to make a point is just wrong. Lets say there is no “gay lifestyle” and (for the sake of agrument) I thought there was one, does that make me a homophobe. Nowhere in your definition of homophobe does it mention ignorance. By the way if Webster says …aversion to…homosexuality is homophobia, doesn’t that include all straights? By Narrad: "the Merriam-Webster defines “homophobia” as the “irrational fear of, aversion to, discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.” " ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/29 "2003-07-25T17:33:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hilltopper \* > **By the way if Webster says …aversion to…homosexuality is homophobia, doesn’t that include all straights?** No. I may, for the sake of argument, have an aversion to homosexual _acts_, in that I don’t want to perform them myself (unless I’ve had a lot of alcohol, and he’s _really_ cute 😉 ). But that doesn’t mean I have an aversion to homosexuals themselves. To put it another way: I don’t like broccoli. (The deadliest vegetable on earth…it tries to warn you itself with it’s terrible taste.) But I don’t have any problem hanging out with people who eat broccoli. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/30 "2003-07-25T17:36:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Call me a homophobe because I don’t want a massage from a man if you want I call busllshit. Nobody said any such thing and massages from men were never ever mentioned. You have been called a homophobe because you posted this: > [@](#): > > It seems “homophobe” has become the catchall word for people that don’t understand or agree with gays/the gay lifestyle. First, there is no gay lifestyle, any more than there is a blue-eyed lifestyle or a redhead lifestyle. The only thing gay people have in common is that we fall in love with members of our own genders. Other than that, we are as diverse as the rest of humanity. The “gay lifestyle” bullshit is just another attempt to cram us into one catch-all category. Second, you cannot disagree with being gay any more than you can with haveing blue eyes or red hair. Being gay is an aspect of a person’s being, not a political position one can debate. Preach all you please, I can no more change my sexuality than you can the color of your skin. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/31 "2003-07-25T17:41:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by modro \* > No, I will not decorate your house. But… but… I just bought a credenza and I have no idea where to put it! I’m sure you’ll be able to make a suggestion, though. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/32 "2003-07-25T17:43:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by modro \* > \*\*I apologize, but you _do_ realize that I could have picked worse, right? \*\* If you really want to make 'em sick, pick Janet Waco. ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/33 "2003-07-25T17:55:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hilltopper \* > \*\*It seems “homophobe” has become the catchall word for people that don’t understand or agree with gays/the gay lifestyle. \*\* I got into an argument with a gay man about the war in Iraq. That would be an example of not “agreeing with gays.” I have a feeling you meant something else though, more like you don’t _approve of their existence_. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/34 "2003-07-25T17:55:52Z")
And thanks to **gobear** for making sure I didn’t blow a gasket this morning. I’ll probably end up, er, heating up later. B and I are going to see _Pirates_ (I’m expecting it to be an eye candy flick). Plus, y’know, empty house and all’at this weekend. ---
**Author:** ![hilltopper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c68b51/32.png) [@hilltopper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hilltopper)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/35 "2003-07-25T18:27:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*I call busllshit. Nobody said any such thing and massages from men were never ever mentioned. \*\* I am merely giving an example of what I consider evidence of homophobia. Whats your point? Also read my entire post. It also says "My question is, are those that are ignorant enough to think that the flamboyant gay guy portrayed on many a TV show is the norm considered homophobic? I don’t think misconceptions about gays=homophobic" > [@](#): > > First, there is no gay lifestyle, any more than there is a blue-eyed lifestyle or a redhead lifestyle. The only thing gay people have in common is that we fall in love with members of our own genders. Other than that, we are as diverse as the rest of humanity. The “gay lifestyle” bullshit is just another attempt to cram us into one catch-all category. Fine. So “gay lifestyle” is a bullshit term. ---
**Author:** ![modro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@modro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/modro)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/36 "2003-07-25T19:08:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hilltopper \* > \*\*I am merely giving an example of what I consider evidence of homophobia. Whats your point? > > Also read my entire post. It also says "My question is, are those that are ignorant enough to think that the flamboyant gay guy portrayed on many a TV show is the norm considered homophobic? > \*\* Well, the Massage example doesn’t quite count. No one said the guy giving the massage is gay. So you don’t want a guy touching you, that’s fine. Doesn’t make you homophobic. I would get uncomfortable if I had a woman touching me in a sexual manner, doesn’t make me heterophobic. I don’t think ignorance really counts either. It’s one thing to believe a sterotype, it is another thing altogether to use that stereotype as a means of hurting other people. Ignorance isn’t an irrational fear, it is ignorance. Where homophobia comes in, is if we met in person, and you got to know me. Suppose we became friends, got along real well, _then_ I told you I was gay. How would your opinion change. Would you have less respect for me? Avoid me? Even if by knowing me in the first place I proved that the stereotypes were incorrect? If you would, _that_ is homophobia. ---
**Author:** ![hilltopper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c68b51/32.png) [@hilltopper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hilltopper)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/37 "2003-07-25T19:33:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by modro \* > \*\* Where homophobia comes in, is if we met in person, and you got to know me. Suppose we became friends, got along real well, _then_ I told you I was gay. How would your opinion change. Would you have less respect for me? Avoid me? Even if by knowing me in the first place I proved that the stereotypes were incorrect? > > If you would, _that_ is homophobia. \*\* I agree with that completely. Is that scenario _really that_ common? (FTR I have gay clients and freinds and don’t respect them less or avoid them) ---
**Author:** ![modro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@modro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/modro)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/38 "2003-07-25T19:38:46Z")
No, but you wanted to know if ignorance counted as homophobia, and I just used that as an example of what does. ---
**Author:** ![seal\_cleaner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@seal\_cleaner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seal_cleaner)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/39 "2003-07-25T20:21:22Z")
Fine, no gay lifestyle. But - there is an AGENDA. The Supreme Court says so. Where do I get a copy? ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/40 "2003-07-25T20:42:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hilltopper \* > \*\*Call me a homophobe because I don’t want a massage from a man if you want. > \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hilltopper \* > \*\*I am merely giving an example of what I consider evidence of homophobia. Whats your point? > \*\* So, since I’m a woman who would never ever ever _ever_ go to a male gynaecologist (and I think I’d even be uncomfortable going to a male GP to be honest), by your logic doesn’t that mean it’s evidence I’m gay? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625.md?page=3)