# Open Letter To The Homophobe's I've Met.. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 24, 2003, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625 "2003-07-24T14:14:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/81 "2003-07-28T05:09:16Z")
Yes, people have differences, but exempting the most egregious of circumstances, they usually don’t/shouldn’t preclude friendship. As people have said many times previously, and I don’t know why I’m repeating it yet again, if you don’t like homosexual sex, don’t get into bed with someone of your gender. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/82 "2003-07-28T05:45:18Z")
> [@](#): > > In tests conducted by Prof. Henry E Adams of the University of Georgia, homophobic men who said they were exclusively heterosexual were shown gay sex videos. Four out of five became sexually aroused by the homoerotic imagery, as recorded by a penile circumference measuring device - a plethysmograph. Man! I never get paid to watch gay porn. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![LudditeAndroid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8baadc/32.png) [@LudditeAndroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LudditeAndroid)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/83 "2003-07-28T05:51:13Z")
Neither do I. No fair. Every time I sign up as a test subject I just get marketing people asking me how often I buy various types of groceries. And they usually don’t have gay porn, I’ve asked. ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/84 "2003-07-28T06:18:04Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Snake \* > \*\* I , on the other hand , think much of whats wrong is caused by a bunch of douchebags who feel they MUST force their morality on other people . I don’t want or need you to save me or show me the error of my wicked ways . pfffffff I’ll admit to being politicly incorrect . So fuckin what . Maybe too many people are just too sensitive ._\* If you want my two cents: anyone who plays the “Y’all’re just down on me 'cause I’m not PC” card automatically loses 100 credibility points. That’s just a euphemism for “I enjoy being an asshole, and I revel in my total lack of empathy for other people.” (And just incidentally—I suppose there’s no way this is not going to sound snarky after my first point, but seriously, just a style pointer—you don’t need a space before a period or comma. Only after.) ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/85 "2003-07-28T07:50:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BrightNShiny \* > \*\*Man! I never get paid to watch gay porn. ☹ \*\* Yeah, but you have a lot of offers from men to be your plethysmograph. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jervoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/86 "2003-07-28T11:46:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by omni-not \* > \*\*Err…no, not exactly. The actual definition reads as follows: > > “irrational fear of, aversion to, _ **or** _ discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals” > > (my bolding and italicizing) > So, it’s irrational fear of, aversion to or discrimination against. Bit of a difference, in my humble opinion. 🙂 \*\* D’oh. :smack: (FWIW, I initially underlined “or” for emphasis – my point, after all, was that the word carries a _wider_ meaning than some simpletons would believe – but accidentally deleted the whole darn word when I later tried to remove the underline.) ---
**Author:** ![omni-not](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8dc957/32.png) [@omni-not](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/omni-not)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/87 "2003-07-28T13:48:09Z")
You’re forgiven… ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/88 "2003-07-28T16:47:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CanvasShoes \* > \*\*Please excuse my extreme ignorance on this matter. (honest request, NOT sarcasm, I have a few gay friends, but know next to nothing about their orientation, or “lifestyle” sorry “lifestyle” meaning customs, beliefs attitudes toward the “straight” world etc). > > Are you meaning to say that people who don’t condone homosexuality (either because of religious upbringingm, disagreeing that it’s “natural” or what have you) are either homophobic (afraid of gay persons) or anti-gay (those who discriminate against gays)?? > > Is it “allowed” or possible for a person to hold their beliefs and still be open minded regarding the rights of gay persons, without being labeled “homophobic” or “anti-gay”? > > Please be kind, remember these are QUESTIONS, NOT opinions, OR statements!!! \*\* I’ll try to be kind, but I’m under no obligation to do so: I’m responding to your explicit request for kindness, not to your naivete. It will be helpful for people who don’t GET it to substitute the word “black” or “female” for “homosexual” or “gay” in any sentence that expresses their judgment of homosexuals. It’s the only valid paradigm. The only way to maintain the misunderstanding that you have is to hold tenaciously to your mistaken paradigm, wherein a homosexual is to a heterosexual what, say, an atheist is to a christian. This second paradigm is completely inaccurate and will not help you in your honest quest to better understand the situation. Rather, my sexuality has exactly the same relationship to and effect on my life and my “lifestyle” and my choices and opportunities as your skin color or your gender: they are biological immutables (barring sophisticated surgical techniques), but they are used — misused — by society to define and limit NON-biological beliefs and behaviors. There’s a great disconnect between what sexual orientation and skin color and gender ACTUALLY affect and influence in an individual human being’s behavioral and emotional makeup, and the mythology of affect that society dictates must artificially be held up as the standard of labeling and judgment. Once you fully understand this, you’ll understand that words like “condone,” “disagree,” or even “beliefs” are utterly irrelevant to this conversation. Homosexuality is not subject to opinion, or belief, or debate, any more than “North” is, or “rain,” or the rights of an individual to participate equally in the society in which he or she was born or chooses to live. Making a statement like, for example, “I don’t condone homosexuality” is not to express an opinion, but to display an ignorance. It’s about as nonsensical as saying “I think blue is wrong.” The tenacity with which so many such people cling to their ignorance suggests nothing so much as fear, so it seems pretty obvious to me that homophobia is a pretty apt description of such ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/89 "2003-07-28T17:37:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Snake \* > 1 When did i ever say anything even close to that ? Not once . Although if that whole goat thing DID happen in church , I’d hafta give you points for pissing off the “holy people”. I give less than a shit about you being bisexual , and i care even less what you and you’re s/o do . Can’t you just be a person ? Why do you hafta be " Hi , I’m … , I’m bi and don’t you oppress me " I have never seen a ‘straight pride’ rally . Its not my job to recognize you for whatever orientation you are . Oh, for the love of Jesus tapdancing on a pogo stick … **Snake** , show me ANYWHERE straight people are being encroached. Show me where if they don’t stick up for their rights (and even if they do), they’re being taken away. So you don’t care what me and my SO do. But wait…didn’t you say you didn’t want to be around “that sort of thing”? I’m confused. I am myself. And when I am myself, I find that my rights as a human being in this country are somehow taken away. I do not wish for that to be the case now or ever. And BTW, when I introduce myself I don’t tell people my sexuality. It’s none of their business unless and until they are somehow involved in some aspect of it (or I tell them beforehand in case they might be bothered). It is the default in this country that someone is straight. Thus sometimes one corrects that view for the benefit of those involved. I’m not asking you to recognize my sexuality. Quite frankly, given what you’ve said in this thread I’d prefer not to recognize you _anywhere_. What I am asking is that you don’t start to think all sort of oogy thoughts about what I do in my bedroom because it’s of fuck-all importance to you. > [@](#): > > 2 The similarity is that they’re both sexual activities . Right, then. Having sex with a corpse and having sex with your SO (assuming you have one) are both sexual activities. Pray tell what OTHER similarities are there? Or were you perhaps not trying to draw a parallel between gay sex and sex with a minor? > [@](#): > > 3I’m still a bigot ? I’m a bigot for having an opinion . You are a bigot for having an uninformed and quite frankly … well, bigoted opinion. Yes. You are. > [@](#): > > Fine , and you’re a whiney shitbag . Defend that statement. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/90 "2003-07-28T18:22:10Z")
Let’s set a nice place for Snake next to Tarantula so all the creepy crawlies can congregate. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/91 "2003-07-28T20:49:22Z")
Here’s the thing: I am a reasonably openminded heterosexual male. I find the idea of male-male intercourse (of any variety) vaguely “icky”. I can’t help that. (Heck, I find the idea of male-female anal intercourse vaguely icky.) **Snake** seems to find this ickiness to be sufficient justification to distance himself from those who engage in such activities. Me, I don’t dwell on these things when I meet such people. Do I think **Snake** is evil incarnate for being bothered by the thought of icky things? No. I just think he’s missing out on association with some fine, fine people due to his squeamishness. How sad. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/92 "2003-07-28T21:56:52Z")
Snake isn’t evil incarnate for his attitudes, and it’s not helpful to frame the debate as if that were the only possibility; it’s not that black and white. But he is ignorant and backward, and has chosen to live in a restricted fantasy world rather than the real world, and insofar as he makes an effort to impose that fantasy world on the rights of others, he’s actively promulgating “evil.” ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/93 "2003-07-28T22:52:08Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Snake** _ > > The beach closest to us has , over the years , become almost a magnet for the gay community … Its to the point that we ride down to Ocean City , MD… Living near Rehoboth Beach, are we? And might I suggest clicking on one of the links in my sig line. Perhaps you’ll find a little more information there than you’ve had at your disposal previously. Better to confront your ignorance rather than revel in it, no? Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Snake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Snake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snake)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/94 "2003-07-29T02:30:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ferrous \* > \*\*That’s just a euphemism for “I enjoy being an asshole, and I revel in my total lack of empathy for other people.” > \*\* ``` Talk about not being PC. You used the word 'asshole' even though it could offend people tragicly born with assholes ! Yes, a joke, but thats the PC sort of crap I'm tired of. Have an opinion that doesn't praise somebody else's way of life and you are automaticly the antichrist . Unless it involves this guy Sid I work with, I don't start my day planning out who I'll offend next. So no, I don't enjoy being an asshole just to be one ........ unless Sid is around. As for the total lack of empathy ? I have some. Probably not as much as some people, but I have some. I usually save it for children as they're more prone to getting screwed over. Adults are pretty much on their own. ``` btw my typing better ? heh ---
**Author:** ![Snake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Snake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snake)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/95 "2003-07-29T02:52:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jr8 \* > \*\*Here’s the thing: > > I am a reasonably openminded heterosexual male. I find the idea of male-male intercourse (of any variety) vaguely “icky”. I can’t help that. (Heck, I find the idea of male-female anal intercourse vaguely icky.) > > **Snake** seems to find this ickiness to be sufficient justification to distance himself from those who engage in such activities. Me, I don’t dwell on these things when I meet such people. Do I think **Snake** is evil incarnate for being bothered by the thought of icky things? No. I just think he’s missing out on association with some fine, fine people due to his squeamishness. How sad. \*\* Sweet Baby Geebus ! Somebody gets what I’m saying ! Am I missing out ? Quite possibly so, but thats on my shoulders . Thanks for not grabbing a torch and marching towards my house like many of the other villagers . ---
**Author:** ![Snake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Snake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snake)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/96 "2003-07-29T03:01:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lissener \* > \*\*… and insofar as he makes an effort to impose that fantasy world on the rights of others, he’s actively promulgating “evil.” \*\* Have you read ANY of my posts ? Not once have I said that I think anyone should be deprived of their rights . In fact, I’ve stated a few times that people should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as nobody gets hurt. I’m not looking to impose a friggin thing on anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Snake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Snake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snake)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/97 "2003-07-29T03:18:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > \*\*Living near Rehoboth Beach, are we? > > And might I suggest clicking on one of the links in my sig line. Perhaps you’ll find a little more information there than you’ve had at your disposal previously. Better to confront your ignorance rather than revel in it, no? > > Esprix \*\* Yeah , north of Rehoboth. You skipped a few lines when you quoted me, though . You left out the militant part. If it were militantly heterosexual I wouldn’t want to be there either, by the way . I go by what I see . Guys make SURE you realize they’re gay and will occasionally harrass you about ‘trying it’ even if you’re walking with your g/f . Of course this isn’t the case with every gay person there, and I’m sure its a very small percentage, but its enough to make the longer drive south quite reasonable. So experience, not ignorance, is where I’m speaking from. ---
**Author:** ![Snake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Snake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snake)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/98 "2003-07-29T03:42:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by iampunha \* > \*\*Oh, for the love of Jesus tapdancing on a pogo stick … **Snake** , show me ANYWHERE straight people are being encroached. > > Right, then. Having sex with a corpse and having sex with your SO (assuming you have one) are both sexual activities. Pray tell what OTHER similarities are there? Or were you perhaps not trying to draw a parallel between gay sex and sex with a minor? > You are a bigot for having an uninformed opinion … > Defend that statement. \*\* pogo stick hahahahha right on Look no further than New York for encroachment . There’s a tax supported public school for ONLY homosexual and transgender kids \. Try to have a straight only school . Equal opportunity goes both ways. Not that i would want that , mind you , schools should be for kids … any kids … all kids . Nope , wasn’t trying to parallel . Was just to illustrate judgementalism. I go by what I see and what I experience , so don’t give me the ‘you’re uniformed’ crap. I have yet to use any stereotype of homosexuality in my posts, and I won’t. Educating me would have to be a " No, that really didn’t happen" class. Read your posts for my defense of that statement. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/99 "2003-07-29T04:07:48Z")
Are you trying to artifically inflate your post count or are you just unable to respond in a single post and need to spread your bile out? ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625/100 "2003-07-29T04:23:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Snake \* > \*\* btw my typing better ? heh \*\* Improving. Not quite ready for publication yet, though. You also don’t need the spaces before the question mark or the exclamation point. And ellipsis points (…) are typically only three periods, and also don’t need spaces, either before or after. As for the rest of your post…Eh, I’m bored of arguing with people trying to justify their irrational prejudices. Lets just say I agree with the next post by **lissener** or **iampunha**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-homophobes-ive-met/190625.md?page=6)