# Open letter to the Vegan Bitch
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [April 11, 2003, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063 "2003-04-11T16:36:59Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2003, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/41 "2003-04-11T20:15:51Z")
Let me just add that I don’t fault anyone who thinks “can’t eat meat” means no meat pieces but broth is fine, or seafood might be OK, etc. Being a vegetarian who has true digestive difficulty with this sort of thing, I’m very descriptive to people about what I can eat (no animal flesh or broth, eggs and dairy fine) and offer to bring something if I’m a bother.
A former boss of mine had celiac disease (and not only did his daughter have that, but she was also diabetic :eek: ); he and I usually picked the restaurant if the office was going to get food. 😛
Being a **vegan** and not being really freaking specific about it, and then getting all huffy about it - is either very stupid, very manipulative, or both.
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### Author:  [@Elza\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elza_B)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2003, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/42 "2003-04-11T20:23:22Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Inky- \*
> \*\*
> Fact is, had CG or I known the difference between ‘vegan’ as opposed to ‘vegetarian’ we would have happily set aside some potatoes and veggies for her, but instead she sits down, asks about the butter or eggs and and immediately starts pouting and riding my friend to leave. She spent the entire meal very conspicuously tearing up and eating dinner rolls one morsal at a time. \*\*
These are the kind of vegans who fuck the rest of us over. I don’t eat animal products, but who am I to tell anyone else not to do so? And if I’m invited over to someone’s house, I’ll typically explain my dietary issues beforehand - and do it in a way so that they don’t mind being accomodating - and I BRING a dish on my own that I know I can be satisfied with a helping or two for myself.
Militant vegans give those of us who only care about our _own_ choices a bad name. My SO is an omnivore - I don’t give him shit about his choices, and when we go out to eat or cook at his place, all I ask is that I have a choice. He even went veg for a week to see if he liked it without my asking him - there’s a reason I love this guy:). But I would never force him to do so or make him feel bad about what he’s eating.
On the flip side, however, I _have_ been harrassed for being vegetarian. An old co-worker apparently could NOT understand why I was vegetarian and had to comment on _every_ single thing I ever ate - my mushroom soup, my salads, my soymilk, EVERYTHING. I typically don’t even tell anyone, but I was talking to someone else from the building and they were veg, so he heard us talking about it - and decided to make his uneducated little ‘eww’ comments. Until finally, one morning, I came into work and I’d brought wheat toast and sugar-free vegan jelly. WHEAT TOAST AND JELLY. The jelly looked like normal grape jelly - it didn’t look weird. So I’m unwrapping my food at my desk, and I hear “Ewww…what’s that?” I finally snapped. I turned around and said “I am eating TOASTED BREAD with JELLY. Something you have probably eaten at least once a week in your life! Now, would you please stop commenting on every fucking thing I eat, especially since I’m kind enough to leave your nasty-ass lunch alone every day? Otherwise, I can sit here and spout off the facts about what’s in that meat you eat every day, or how they make that cheese. So, leave me alone and let me eat in peace!” He just had this shocked look on his face - but it worked. I got no more comments about my dietary choices. And one of the producers overheard the whole thing, and told me “I was wondering when you’d finally tell him to shut the fuck up. Took you long enough!”
Ava
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### Author:  [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/43 "2003-04-11T20:35:05Z")
I don’t mind cooking for vegans or vegetarians of any stripe. I’m careful to ask what is allowable in someone’s diet, and often surprised to learn new things - I had no idea that calcium-enriched foods often have animal products as the calcium source, for instance. I generally regard someone’s dietary restrictions or preferences as a welcome challenge.
That said, if someone doesn’t bother to tell me they’re vegan or that they have a food allergy, they’re pretty much stuck eating whatever I have, and have no right to complain about it.
Those people who try to “sneak” unacceptable ingredients to people with dietary restrictions should be summarily executed.
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### Author:  [@Joyfulgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joyfulgirl)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2003, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/44 "2003-04-11T21:47:36Z")
Just a couple of quick points, as most of what I wanted to say has already been addressed. First of all, how did you know that her shoes were made of leather? I have a pair of really good vegan shoes (or about as vegan as you can get) that look very similiar to leather. I was at a family dinner party once and had someone come up to me and bother me because I was “just pretending to be vegan”. I had to actually take off my shoes and show them the tag.
Not that I’m excusing the rest of her behaviour. Like **avabeth** said, people like her make it really hard for the rest of us vegans. Sure, I’ve met alot of Omnivores who make a huge deal out of how “freaky” vegan food is, but I’ve met more militant vegans who think it’s their mission to save humankind from meat. They harrass people, compain constantly, and basically use their beliefs as an excuse to be rude. My SO and his family are not vegetarians, and yet we manage to eat together without any hurt feelings or conflicts. (Even his very Italian grandma, who puts meat in everything, tries to make food I can have.)
When it comes to dinner parties, most of the time I just bring my own and ignore rude looks from the other guests. I know what’s in it and there’s no extra hassle for the host. Anyone who doesn’t tell you about special diets in advance OR provide something that they can have are just looking to have a horrible time. I mean, really… is it that freaking hard to be civil?
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### Author:  [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2003, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/45 "2003-04-11T21:49:23Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by avabeth \*
> \*\*… and I’d brought wheat toast and sugar-free vegan jelly. \*\*
[unedjamacated and ignert question]
How is vegan jelly differant from regular jelly? (would that be “carnivore” jelly? 😉 )
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### Author:  [@Elza\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elza_B)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2003, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/46 "2003-04-11T21:52:25Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by BiblioCat \*
> \*\*[unedjamacated and ignert question]
> How is vegan jelly differant from regular jelly? (would that be “carnivore” jelly? 😉 ) \*\*
To be honest, I’m not sure:). I went to the health food store to buy it, and they told me it was vegan. I don’t know if jelly is made with gelatin or anything, but I do know that there’s a vegan gelatin out there, so if jelly _is_ made with gelatin, it would have been along those lines.
Aside from that, I’m assuming it’s just because it was sugar-free and there was no bone-char involved in the processing:). That’s a good question, though. My health-food store was always pretty helpful when I asked them questions.
Hey, I didn’t say I was a radical fully-educated vegan!:smack:
Ava
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### Author:  [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2003, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/47 "2003-04-11T21:55:50Z")
People like Vegan Bitch have put me off of ever seriously considering veganism as anything but an excuse for someone go get on their Super-Elevated High Horse 4000. I sat next to a Vegan Bitch in a Caribbean Lit class I took in college. She managed to piss everybody in the class off with her attitudes not only towards food, but also towards religion. I made a point of putting my leather jacket on the seat between us every day.
Actually, now that I think of it, I don’t think I’ve ever met a vegan who isn’t a preachy knowitall who must let everyone know that if they don’t embrace veganism posthaste they will all DIE HORRIBLE DEATHS! :eek: I’ve heard rational vegans exist, but I’ve yet to meet one.
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Gazelle from Hell \*
> \*\*I have a friend with a child who is literally deathly allergic to wheat, nuts and many other foods. Poor kid is so cute. He’s under ten years old and KNOWS what he can and can’t eat…
>
> My friend and her husband have handled the situation perfectly, not making a huge deal out of what he cannot eat, making good-tasting healthy foods available to him, researching alternatives and treatments, making sure he has plenty of safe food at school, and teaching him to be calm and assertive with others who _still_ try to get him to try foods that could frikkin’ KILL him.
>
> It’s amazing to me how many people don’t believe that this level of food allergies exists. They roll their eyes at the idea, as if these people are finding excuses to limit their kids’ diets.
> \*\*
My nephew SpazMonkey is going to be starting school in the next year or two, so almost every time I talk to Oldest SpazSister we end up talking about The State of Elementary Schools Today. One of her favorite, most rehearsed, and best delivered rants is about repressive food policies at schools. Now, Oldest SpazSister is also Dr. (Pharm. D.) SpazSister, so she knows how serious food allergies can be. What she’s going off about are things like not letting kids bring peanut butter and jelly sandwiches in their lunches because “they might share with the other kids and one of them might be deathly allergic to peanuts” and parents being told that they must–MUST–bring only store-bought cookies and cupcakes to parties because they want to risk a parent baking a cookie with something a child is deathly allergic to.\* I guess actually trusting the kid to know what his/her own allergies are and letting Allergic Kid’s parents make her/him something for parties is out of the question? I’ll admit, this has the faint air of urban legend about it. Still makes a damn fine rant, though.
\*Could I have written a longer sentence?
> [@](#):
>
> _Originally posted by Binarydrone_
> **On the other other hand (I have three, you know)**
Don’t you mean on the [gripping hand?](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0671795740/qid=1050097494/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/104-7582324-9486366?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) 😃
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### Author:  [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2003, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/48 "2003-04-11T21:59:01Z")
> [@](#):
>
> _Originally posted by SpazCat \*
> \*\* and parents being told that they must–MUST–bring only store-bought cookies and cupcakes to parties because they want to risk a parent baking a cookie with something a child is deathly allergic to_\*
Addendum: Without considering that that same ingredient might be in a store-bought concoction as well.
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### Author:  [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2003, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/49 "2003-04-11T22:01:19Z")
I always try to ask if people have allergies or preferences, etc. when we have guests. Seems like plain ol’ common sense.
More to the point, I am now terrified of these people who ignore allergy warnings. My little girl has turned out to be very allergic to peanuts, which it seems are everywhere. Yow. Life has gotten that much scarier for us, and we’re still getting used to it.
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### Author:  [@Joyfulgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joyfulgirl)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2003, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/50 "2003-04-11T22:06:57Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by SpazCat \*
> \*\*\I’ve heard rational vegans exist, but I’ve yet to meet one. \
>
> \*\*
Hello.
Seriously, it makes me sad when people make statements like this. We’re out there. We exist! The reason you think you haven’t met any rational vegans is because all the good ones don’t announce their veganism to most people, due to the fact that they don’t want to be seen as confrontational. In fact, unless you’re a close friend or family, you probably won’t even know I’m a vegan.
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### Author:  [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2003, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/51 "2003-04-11T22:09:18Z")
**genie** , three words: Self-stick epinephrine.
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### Author:  [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2003, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/52 "2003-04-11T22:09:59Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Actually, now that I think of it, I don’t think I’ve ever met a vegan who isn’t a preachy knowitall who must let everyone know that if they don’t embrace veganism posthaste they will all DIE HORRIBLE DEATHS! I’ve heard rational vegans exist, but I’ve yet to meet one.
I used to work with a rational vegan! (Well, OK, she was completely loopy in fact, but about other things, not food.) She was very nice, and we shared a lot of cheeseless pizza.
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2003, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/53 "2003-04-11T22:15:31Z")
The OP made me hungry.
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Inky- \*
> **Then she shows up and wrinkles her nose at the (heavenly) smell of roasting bird, and starts talking about stuff like unhygenic conditions in turkey farms and steroid injections and salmonella – things which strike me as a bit of a breech of dinner party etiquitte.**
I’m still hungry.
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### Author:  [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/54 "2003-04-11T22:16:09Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Dragonblink \*
> \*\*I’m disappointed to hear that there are assmonkeys out there who will try to “trick” people with allergies as well as other restricted diets. \*\*
Like [insisting a diabetic have a slice of birthday cake](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1966302&highlight=diabetic+cake+birthday#post1966302).
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### Author:  [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2003, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/55 "2003-04-11T22:19:43Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by BiblioCat \*
> \*\*[unedjamacated and ignert question]
> How is vegan jelly differant from regular jelly? (would that be “carnivore” jelly? 😉 ) \*\*
It costs twice as much? 😛 😛
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### Author:  [@Elza\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elza_B)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2003, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/56 "2003-04-11T22:25:16Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Joyfulgirl \*
> \*\*Hello.
>
> Seriously, it makes me sad when people make statements like this. We’re out there. We exist! The reason you think you haven’t met any rational vegans is because all the good ones don’t announce their veganism to most people, due to the fact that they don’t want to be seen as confrontational. In fact, unless you’re a close friend or family, you probably won’t even know I’m a vegan. \*\*
Thank you! I was about the post the same thing.
My whole attitude is that I don’t really care what people put into their mouths as long as they don’t care what I put into my mouth. Why does it matter if I eat chicken or tofu? Or if my macaroni and ‘cheese’ is made out of macaroni and a nutritional yeast sauce instead of Velveeta? I’ll discuss it with people if they ask, but the second someone begins to get belligerant with me, I’ll stop.
There are militant vegans whom I can’t stand, but on the other hand, there are also people who seem to think that not eating meat is a personal affront to them, like my old co-worker. I eat this way because I _like_ it and because I feel better when I eat this way. You can munch on aluminum foil and toilet paper for all I care - it’s none of my business!
Ava
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### Author:  [@austen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/austen)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2003, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/57 "2003-04-11T22:25:33Z")
Regular jelly uses gelatin as a thickener, which is made from animal connective tissue.
Vegan jelly uses carageenanan as a thickener, which is made from seaweed.
Cite:
[http://www.veg.ca/newsletr/julaug95/watch.html](http://www.veg.ca/newsletr/julaug95/watch.html)
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### Author:  [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2003, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/58 "2003-04-11T22:26:27Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Joyfulgirl \*
> \*\*Hello.
>
> Seriously, it makes me sad when people make statements like this. We’re out there. We exist! The reason you think you haven’t met any rational vegans is because all the good ones don’t announce their veganism to most people, due to the fact that they don’t want to be seen as confrontational. In fact, unless you’re a close friend or family, you probably won’t even know I’m a vegan. \*\*
THANK YOU! I thought people like you were a myth like vampires and unicorns and illusioned customer service reps.
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### Author:  [@Elza\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elza_B)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2003, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/59 "2003-04-11T22:31:38Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by austen \*
> \*\*Regular jelly uses gelatin as a thickener, which is made from animal connective tissue.
>
> Vegan jelly uses carageenanan as a thickener, which is made from seaweed.
>
> Cite:
>
> [http://www.veg.ca/newsletr/julaug95/watch.html](http://www.veg.ca/newsletr/julaug95/watch.html) \*\*
Thanks:). I knew there was a reason. (And I very rarely eat the stuff anyway, so I’m not all that familiar with it.).
Ava
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### Author:  [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2003, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/60 "2003-04-11T22:37:07Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*\*How is vegan jelly different from regular jelly? (Would that be “carnivore” jelly? 😉 ) \*\*
My first thought would be the pectin (the chemical that makes jelly jell) but according to _The Oxford Companion to Food_ even processed commerical pectin is made from fruit. I can’t think what would make any jelly non-vegan.
On preview, I see Austin’s comment. Gelatin, while used in many ddesserts, would make jelly “too thick”. Gelatin is generally used to make soild food; unlike american Jelly, which is more like a loose jam or fruit spread.
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