# Open letter to the Vegan Bitch
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [April 11, 2003, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063 "2003-04-11T16:36:59Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@Zenham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenham)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2003, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/61 "2003-04-11T22:52:06Z")
I always liked A. Whitney Brown’s justification for his vegetarianism:
> [@](#):
>
> I’m not a vegetarian because I love animals. I’m a vegetarian because I hate plants.
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### Author:  [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2003, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/62 "2003-04-11T23:30:06Z")
Thanks, **avabeth** and **austen**. I forgot about the gelatin. :smack: It’s been a loooong week.
My mother makes her own preserves, and uses pectin, which I know is made from fruit. She also uses tons of sugar, which would cancel out the sugar-free requirement, if that’s what someone was looking for.
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### Author:  [@Exgineer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exgineer)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2003, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/63 "2003-04-11T23:54:50Z")
I really can’t believe this is an issue.
Like I said, if you have special dietary requirements, just tell me so and I’ll will accomodate you. I realize that people have health issues (my girlfriend is deathly allergic to brazil nuts and walnuts), and preferences.
If you don’t tell me beforehand, you’re screwed. I won’t think to list the ingredients if you don’t ask.
The appropriate time to politely inform the host of specific dietary requirements is “any time before he or she goes to buy the food.” The appropriate time to deliver your little polemic on the superior morality your current diet is “never, and especially not when you’ve just shown up for a dinner party.”
I would be seriously put out if anybody who accepted an invitation to a turkey dinner at my house and bitched about what I was serving when:[ul]A) He or she knew that turkey would pretty much be the central theme of the dinner.
B) Didn’t tell me beforehand that “I don’t eat meat” actually means “I don’t ever want to have contact with any animal products ever.”
C) Would take the opportunity to lecture.[/ul]
Jehovah’s Witnesses get the big boot from my house, so why shouldn’t anyone else who came in under false pretenses?
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### Author:  [@Elza\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elza_B)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/64 "2003-04-12T00:04:55Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by BiblioCat \*
> \*\*Thanks, **avabeth** and **austen**. I forgot about the gelatin. :smack: It’s been a loooong week.
>
> My mother makes her own preserves, and uses pectin, which I know is made from fruit. She also uses tons of sugar, which would cancel out the sugar-free requirement, if that’s what someone was looking for. \*\*
To be honest, I do the sugar-free thing not because of the veganism, but because I’m hypoglycemic and sugar will make my blood sugar go up and down like mad. I don’t really do honey or maple syrup for the same reasons - I use Stevia or Splenda in things. To be honest, I always thought jelly was made with gelatin, but I don’t eat it often, so I don’t really know. I’m not a huge fan of the sugar-free jelly, so it’s usually only when I get a craving for peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.
Ava
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### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/65 "2003-04-12T00:11:47Z")
Exgineer: And why shouldn’t the guest be peeved when she was invited to a dinner under false pretenses?
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### Author:  [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/66 "2003-04-12T00:20:28Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Monty \*
> \*\*Exgineer: And why shouldn’t the guest be peeved when she was invited to a dinner under false pretenses? \*\*
😕
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### Author:  [@Miss\_Gretchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Gretchen)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/67 "2003-04-12T00:34:51Z")
Since reading **alice\_in\_wonderland’s** comment about the “all pork dinner”, I’m still trying to shake off the thought that someone out there put FRIGGIN’ BACON IN A SAMOSA! Good Og! What is this world coming to?
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### Author:  [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/68 "2003-04-12T00:38:19Z")
A similar story to the OP -but I was a waitress, not the hostess. I used to work in a private, exculsive golf and country club where the chefs would have a new and different menu every night, based on whatever they felt like ordering that week and that they had in stock that would be enough to serve to the nuber of expected diners, since we were essentially reservation-only. The occasional walk-ins were usually due to power outages during storms of members who owned houses on the property (half the club property was serviced from a different power access than the other half).
Anyways, we had a family of people as guests at the club, they were there for someone’s big birthday dinner the next day, and wanted dinner that night. This isn’t a problem, except that once the man (I refuse to call him a gentleman) read the menu, he asked whether there was anything at all that was not cooked with milk or butter, since he had severe dairy allergies. I took a good look at the 3 entrees and 4 or 5 main courses and unfortunately had to conclude that “no, everything was likely cooked with butter or milk”. He then asked if I could speak to the chef about it, and I said I would.
Now, our chef was a disgruntled angry French man who was undergoing a midlife crisis that summer, so it was very easy to upset him. I went in and asked if there were any dairy free items on the menu, which resulted in the expected explosion of curses and the chef asking “why couldn’t he have let me know ahead of time? Why ask when he’s SITTING AT THE TABLE, WAITING FOR HIS MEAL?” I, of course, had no answer.
The chef tells me he’ll find something, but that it’ll take a while, because he had orders up for a couple of other tables, and since there was only him and a dishwasher on duty that night, he was a bit busy. So I return to the table to tell the man that he’d have to wait, but that we could accomodate him, and to take to order for the rest of the table.
The man then goes and blows up in my face, yelling at ME because I was unprepared for this, and that dairy-free alternatives should be always available because we “just never know” and we were a horrible dining establishment, etc. I appologised that he wasn’t happy, but since it was a new menu every night, it wasn’t always possible to plan for these things, but that we would plan ahead for the next couple of nights as we knew he was staying at the club.
I wanted to point out to him that we are aware of the dietary requirements of several of our members, and we do accomodate them to the point of even setting up extra buffet tables to separate meat and seafood because of ONE known member with a severe allergy, but that he’s a FUCKING GUEST THAT NO ONE HERE KNOWS AND THEREFORE WE CANT BE EXPECTED TO KNOW ABOUT HIS FUCKING NEEDS _UNLESS HE TOLD US ABOUT THEM_
Anyways, to make matters worse that night, we got yet another massive thunderstorm which shutdown half the area (on the other power grid) and we ended up with a LOT of walk-ins. What was supposed to be a quiet night with 3 or 4 tables and with me training the one other waitress on that night (who’d only been there a week) ended up being a desperate rush with the two of us serving well over 115 people in the space of an hour, and actually having to call the manager in from his day off for help, because we were so overrun.
And during this OBVIOUSLY unexpected rush, the man had the gall to complain that the _ten minute wait_ between the entree and main course was _unacceptable_ and that we should be a lot faster! OH Boo fucking HOO! Who the hell goes to a place that serves 5 course meals and expected to be treated like it was fucking McDonalds “fast food” ???
As you can see, I still have repressed anger about that night. Stupid moron is allergic to everything on the menu, but doesn’t ask ahead of time to be accomodated (the menu is published at 11:30 am…he had time to see it), and then complains about the slow pace of a _5-course meal_ and insults the waitresses for being slow when they are OBVIOUSLY overrun (see us SETTING UP NEW TABLES? Thats a sign that we now have people we werent expecting!)
Then there were the C-'s : a VERY nice couple who saw how hectic it was and went straight to the main course, and even left a tip for us in a place where the members sign for food and no money is ever exchanged in the dining room. It made the whole night SO much better!
And then there was Doug…but I won’t get started on him…
- **mnemosyne** who still has nightmares about the people she interacted with as a waitress…
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### Author:  [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/69 "2003-04-12T00:43:57Z")
Dear Vegan friends:
I have a recipe for a vegan chocolate cake. Love me.
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### Author:  [@Exgineer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exgineer)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/70 "2003-04-12T00:47:05Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Monty \*
> \*\*Exgineer: And why shouldn’t the guest be peeved when she was invited to a dinner under false pretenses? \*\*
Where are the false pretenses?
**Inky-** invited her to dinner, and she said/asked “I don’t eat meat. Will there be vegetables?”
Given that big whopping load of information, I would have done the same thing he did.
I certainly wouldn’t have thought that the broccoli would instantly become unaccptable because it had an egg-based sauce on it. She didn’t say that _eggs_ were unacceptable, she just said “I don’t eat meat.”
To most of us Yankees, eggs ain’t meat. Niether is cheese.
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### Author:  [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/71 "2003-04-12T00:49:56Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Inky- \*
> \*\* turkey dinner… Yes, the mashed potatoes will have both cream and butter in them… The corn, broccoli and rice has butter on them as well… that white stuff on the broccoli is Hollandaise sauce – it has eggs in it… \*\*
Ye gods, man! I can hear your arteries hardening from here!
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### Author:  [@j.c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j.c)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/72 "2003-04-12T01:28:07Z")
As a living freak, I’d like to point out that I have six jars of store-bought jelly in my house. Some are fancy, some are generic. Not one has gelatin. I always read labels, and don’t recall every seeing gelatin on the list for a jelly, jam, conserver, “all-fruit” spread, or any other peanut butter companion. Maybe in the US, they just don’t use it.
People are always trying to slip me tofu, soymilk, and a couple of other things I HATE. Usually, I nibble politely, and then later make a joke to the family or SO of the slipper - something like “You must really love Meredith to put up with this nasty-ass soy-milk creamed coffee.”
Speaking of soymilk, as far as I can tell, there are 300 brands, all with very different ingredients, and yet they all taste pretty much the same. What’s up with that? Is there some secret soy product that is all soy milks, but not all soy products and doesn’t taste they way when you just eat the beans as a crunchy snack?
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### Author:  [@dwyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dwyr)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/73 "2003-04-12T01:29:23Z")
Pectin occurs naturally in fruits to varying degrees. Some (apples, concord grapes) have lots, others have little (peaches). But pectin won’t set without a proportional amount of sugar-the more pectin in the fruit, the more sugar is needed. It won’t work in the sugar-free sort of jelly.
(I dabble in home-canning and make pretty good jams, jellies, preserves even if I do say so myself.)
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### Author:  [@lorinada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorinada)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/74 "2003-04-12T01:40:17Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Jeff Olsen \*
> \*\*Like [insisting a diabetic have a slice of birthday cake](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1966302&highlight=diabetic+cake+birthday#post1966302). \*\*
Gah! I was just thinking of that stupid bitch today, don’t remember what triggered it. So glad I no longer work there.
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### Author:  [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/75 "2003-04-12T01:48:32Z")
Okay, so it’s _not_ the gelatin.
I just went and checked the three jars of jam in my fridge. Safeway brand, just FTR. Strawberries (or boysenberries or black raspberries), high fructose corn syrup, corn syrup, citic acid and pectin.
I’m back to my question. What’s in jelly and jam that would make it non-vegan friendly? It seems okay to me. (not being a vegan-baiting smart-ass, I really want to know)
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### Author:  [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/76 "2003-04-12T02:06:07Z")
It may be the large chunks of bloody rare beef that Smuckers puts in every jar. You know, for that extra love.
I’m wracking my brain trying to figure it out as well. Pectin is all I have ever heard of for thickening jam, and I make the stuff.
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### Author:  [@LindyHopper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LindyHopper)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/77 "2003-04-12T02:10:57Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by BiblioCat \*
> **I’m back to my question. What’s in jelly and jam that would make it non-vegan friendly?**
Nothing, apparently. I checked too. My jar of apple jelly, for example, lists apple juice, corn syrup (both regular and high-fructose), fruit pectin, and citric acid. Which makes it already vegan, and it’s _Smucker’s_, for God’s sake. So, **avabeth** , if you can find just sugar-free (non-“vegan”. heh.) jelly that’s cheaper, you should definitely buy that. 😉
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### Author:  [@Elza\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elza_B)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/78 "2003-04-12T02:15:38Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by BiblioCat \*
> \*\*
>
> I’m back to my question. What’s in jelly and jam that would make it non-vegan friendly? It seems okay to me. (not being a vegan-baiting smart-ass, I really want to know) \*\*
I think I was mistaken - and since I think I started the whole jelly-non-vegan thing - I think the only thing that would have been in jelly that made it non-vegan was sugar. I think I was getting it mixed up with gelatin - in which there is a vegan and non-vegan version. Sorry for the confusion:). I’m a bad, bad vegan:D.
Ava
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### Author:  [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/79 "2003-04-12T02:15:58Z")
I did a google search on “Vegan, Jelly, Jam” and other than one site that seemed to advise avoiding it because of the refined sugar(for health reasons, not animal related) almost all of them were vegan recipes that called for Jam or jelly in some way. So it seems that not all Vegans avoid it. perhaps some of them simply avoid it for health reasons, while some others have a mistaken belief that it contains geletin.
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### Author:  [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/80 "2003-04-12T03:10:04Z")
Any vegan who thinks that the general public is fully aware about the depth of their dietary restrictions (i.e., no honey, since it comes from bees) is a fucking moron and almost deserves to be fed (unknowingly by the host) animal products.
Any vegan who merely states that they are “vegetarian” yet then expects to be served food meeting vegan protocol is _still_ a fucking moron.
Any vegan that attends a dinner party _knowing in advance_ that there will be meat served, and begins to spout off about bulk food production and ranching methods during the meal deserves nothing less than a boot in the ass on their way out the door.
Any vegan who is unsure of the food preparation methods to be used at a party and still does not bring something edible to keep in the car, just in case, is _still_ pretty lame.
Any vegan who informs me well ahead of time will be served at least one or two very tasty dishes meeting full protocol. They will be cooked in pans that are freshly washed and stirred with freshly washed utensils reserved throughout their preparation for those dishes alone. I will wash my hands each and _every time_ after I handle meat and will similarly wash any cutting board, knife, food processing tool or container before use or reuse. Their food will be located in a separate place on the table and guests will be politely informed not to use any utensils save those which the food is _originally_ served with to dispense said dishes. Usually, I will compose vegan plates in the kitchen to prevent some guest from contaminating vegan food with their gravy laden spoon.
To sit and whinge when she had taken nearly _zero_ precautions to ensure the edibility of the host’s meal is the height of rudeness. Having such a martyr complex is symptomatic of a deeper root for her motivation to become vegan than any concern for animals.
Why didn’t anyone at the party ask her my favorite question that I always pose to snotty vegans and vegetarians:
“If we’re not supposed to eat animals, why do they make them out of meat?”
I CANT BELIEVE NO ONE USED THAT LINE YET
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