# Open letter to the Vegan Bitch
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [April 11, 2003, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063 "2003-04-11T16:36:59Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@LindyHopper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LindyHopper)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/81 "2003-04-12T03:32:01Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Zenster \*
> **"If we’re not supposed to eat animals, why do they make them out of meat?"**
The version I’ve always used is “If God hadn’t wanted us to eat animals, he wouldn’t have made them so darn tasty!”
Heh.
Oh, and (belatedly) **Inky-** : Given that you didn’t know she was a vegan beforehand, you did nothing wrong. Like you need _my_ approval. 😃
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### Author:  [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/82 "2003-04-12T03:33:22Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Zenster \*
> \*\*Why didn’t anyone at the party ask her my favorite question that I always pose to snotty vegans and vegetarians:
>
> “If we’re not supposed to eat animals, why do they make them out of meat?”
> \*\*
I love this question. People have used it on me many times, and my favorite answer is “You’re made of meat, too” followed by staring at them longingly.
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### Author:  [@Inky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inky_1)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/83 "2003-04-12T04:35:56Z")
Yeesh! I had no idea my mindless pissed-off rant would last two pages!
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by manhattan \*
> \*\*Ye gods, man! I can hear your arteries hardening from here! \*\*
Oh, you just have _no_ idea. I hear them crackling like settling concrete in the middle of the night.
Since CG (Creepy Girl) started attending the California Culinary Academy it’s been bechamel and roux blanch and Hollandase for the last six months. Don’t expect many post from me in another six.
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### Author:  [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/84 "2003-04-12T05:06:06Z")
Re: “If we’re not supposed to eat animals…”
My brother’s version of this wisecrack is, “Vegetables are not food. Vegetables are what food eats.”
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### Author:  [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/85 "2003-04-12T05:30:36Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Zenster wrote:
>
> “If we’re not supposed to eat animals, why do they make them out of meat?”
>
> I CANT BELIEVE NO ONE USED THAT LINE YET
I’m just waiting for the ever-popular (and mind-numbingly tiresome) “Plants have feelings too” line to be trotted out. It’s about time.
I agree with most here—the Vegan Bitch was an ass for not letting everyone know in advance about her dietary restrictions. She’s just going vegan “for show” more than anything else; that’s my hunch. I also agree that most of us veggies just wanna be left alone. We don’t want to preach, we just want to eat what we eat. You eat what you like, we eat what we like, everyone is happy. No need for big arguments about it.
I also wanted to point out that wearing leather shoes or leather products does not automatically mean that they are not vegetarian or vegan. (Of course, if they spout off sanctimoniously about the poor little animals while wearing leather, they’re being an idiot and not very consistent.) I remember an article in Vegetarian Times many years ago. They interviewed several “unorthadox” vegetarians—people who had vegetarian _diets_, but didn’t necessarily avoid meat for strong moral reasons. One of these vegetarians was a furrier. (As in, dealt with fur coats.) But they were still a true blue vegetarian, because they didn’t _eat_ meat. Because, strictly speaking, vegetarianism is a _diet_—and only applies to what you eat, not what you wear. So, while most vegetarians avoid leather, it’s not a requirement (by definition) to do so in order to be a vegetarian.
Another thing—in my opinion, as a vegetarian, I have to say that I am not terribly mortified or offended at the sight of _other people’s_ meat dishes, or leather garments. (Hell, I _cook_ meat dishes at my job, looking after the developmentally disabled!) For one thing, I’d have to stick my head in the sand to not see meat dishes on TV, in restaurants, and just about anywhere. Same goes for leather. So, just FYI, I think that some of the attempts to “offend” the vegetarian by deliberately wearing leather or eating meat in front of them may be futile. Unless, of course, the vegetarian in question has made a big production about how casting their delicate eyes upon a meat or leather product makes them swoon, or something.
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### Author:  [@Juniper200](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Juniper200)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/86 "2003-04-12T06:23:25Z")
Were the rolls she so tragically made do with made without milk or eggs? Because I certainly don’t go out of the way to purchase or make vegan bread unless I know there’s going to be a vegan at the table.
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### Author:  [@Marlitharn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marlitharn)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/87 "2003-04-12T06:53:03Z")
_Originally posted by **Spazcat** _:
> [@](#):
>
> _snip_ and parents being told that they must–MUST–bring only store-bought cookies and cupcakes to parties because they want to risk a parent baking a cookie with something a child is deathly allergic to.
Actually, my son’s school put this rule into place due to concerns about hepatitis and safe food-handling in private homes, not because of food allergy issues. While I think it’s sad that all my children’s classmates are doomed to miss out on the culinary delight that is my mother’s chocolate-oatmeal cookie recipe, I can understand their reasoning. I wouldn’t want my son eating a cupcake that was baked in a kitchen in which the cook has to battle the cockroaches for the measuring spoons.
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### Author:  [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/88 "2003-04-12T08:10:12Z")
And considering schools are deathly afraid of being sued for anything that happens to little Junior on their watch, well…
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### Author:  [@NightRabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NightRabbit)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/89 "2003-04-12T09:24:38Z")
I’m severely allergic to potatoes. No kidding. Relatives know to make some pasta for me to have with meals, but I make sure to ask others if they’ll put some on to boil- and no one minds in the least. In fact, family friends are so used to this that they make pasta for me automatically at holiday dinners.
You have to take responsibility for your own food allergies- no one else is going to.
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### Author:  [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/90 "2003-04-12T09:59:19Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Binarydrone \*
> **On the other hand, I have worked as a chef for many years and can tell you that the allergy people freak me out. They will request (for example) a hot fudge sundae with no nuts because they are deathly allergic. I will explain to them that I can 100% guarantee that there will be not nuts deliberately in their food but that there is a huge cross contamination risk if they are that allergic. Most of them eat it anyway and I have not killed anyone yet ( But damn that is not karma that I should have to deal with!).**
Unfortunately, I’ve discovered that there are folks out there who will say they are “allergic” to foods when they simply don’t like them, and “deathly allergic” because once upon a time they got sick (not necessarily with symptoms anything like a food allergy) after eating that something they didn’t like. I would like to strangle these people. They get the attention they so desperately crave, of course, but confuse people who don’t know about food allergies into believing that _everyone_ who has a food allergy is exagerrating or hysterical. In any case, the people who tell you this might be telling the truth and just be extraordinarily brave and lucky - or they might be, erm, fibbing.
At the other extreme, my sons have pollen allergies that sometimes cause cross-allergies with tree nuts, almonds, and peanuts. The older started refusing to eat any nuts at about the same time his allergy started. Our family allergy doctor has recommended not feeding either of them foods containing nuts, the older because sometimes food refusal is an early sign of a developing allergy, the younger because the less exposure he gets now the better. But we don’t have to go into full alarm mode like people with real nut allergies do. Some people have felt it necessary to tell me off for not checking if something includes Traces Of Nuts And/Or Peanuts because obviously there are only two possibilities: the kid can eat all the peanut butter he wants, OR he’s going to keel over if he’s in the same zip code with an oatmeal-walnut cookie 😛
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### Author:  [@Audrey\_Levins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Audrey_Levins)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/91 "2003-04-12T10:33:20Z")
Back when I was waiting tables, there was an older female customer who swore to my coworker–her waitress–that she was “terribly terribly” allergic to caffeine, so would the waitress _please_ ensure that she was served decaf coffee.
Um.
a.) There are still trace amounts of caffeine in decaf.
b.) The bitch had swallowed an entire pitcher of iced tea at this point.
It is this type of person who gives people with special diets a bad name. The woman obviously wanted to ensure that she was served decaf, and went out of her way to lie about her “allergies” to ensure she was served it.
Whatever. I really don’t care what people eat/don’t eat, as long as they don’t grandstand about it. A friend of mine is a vegeterian, of the non-vegan persuasion, and she’s always going on about animal cruelty, etc., but when I asked her how they know that her mascara, markers, make-up, cold medication, dish-soap, etc., is “non toxic,” she looked at me like I was crazy.
Seriously. They test it on animals before they give it to humans. HELLO. And the only reason you can buy “non animal tested” shampoo and make-up, etc., is because the ingredients were tested on animals long before that particular Paul Mitchell shampoo was made.
So, like I said. I really don’t care who eats what, as long as I don’t have to hear about why this makes that person better than me. If you’ve ever taken a prescription medication, or been given a penicillin shot, or worn mascara, or colored with Crayola crayons, you have “benefited” from animal cruelty.
So all I’m saying is, get over yourself! It’s _your_ job to make sure people understand what you will eat and what you won’t, period. And as long as you’re polite and don’t grandstand, I have no problem with any of it. Any decent person would be equally polite and understanding about peoples’ allergies/requests, etc.
Why does this seem to simple to me? 😃
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### Author:  [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/92 "2003-04-12T10:47:42Z")
I’ve also noticed that some people _want_ me to explain my vegetarianism to them. Because they’re wanting to have an argument about it. They are looking forward to “arguing with the vegetarian” or something. I remember one guy started to get frustrated with me because his repeated, “Why are you a vegetarian, really?” were only answered with, “Because I don’t want to eat meat.” I mean, what can you do with that? Not much of an arguement can be started with that, can it? I’m sure I really bummed him out! 🙂
I also notice that some people are waiting to do a “Gotcha! I caught you in an inconsistency! You are a HYPOCRITE! Give up vegetarianism and start eating meat NOW!” So when I only say that I don’t eat meat because “I don’t want to” really disappoints them. I also notice that some of them think that my mere stating that I don’t eat meat automatically means that I _must_ think I’m “better” than them. Just by not eating something, I am making some sort of profound statement about my superiority, I guess. See? See? Make sense now? :rolleyes:
I swear, some people just don’t get it.
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/93 "2003-04-12T11:08:40Z")
Oh, the obligatory food rant…
I once worked for a 40 person department at my company where I had to order lunch. We had the following obstacles:
Religion required diets: Kosher, hallal (several Muslims), Hindu (no beef, but milk OK), and Jain (essentially vegan)
Vegetarians: ovo-lacto, no-meat, and vegan
Food allergies: seafood, tomatoes, corn, beans, peanuts, oranges
There is one and only one solution to the above meal problem: a buffet. We pulled it off consistently for years - every one had at least two dishes they could eat, and the menu was NOT the same every time.
I still arrange meals for seminars, workshops, and conferences. When making arrangements I _always_ ask about special dietary needs, and in some cases either ask for further clarification or run the menu by some of the folks with issues before finalizing the order.
But, my God, you have to take responsibility for yourself! Tell people your needs. Despite my asking, despite my care, all too often someone says “I’m X and can’t eat Y” after the food is served. Helllllllo! _That’s why I asked the damn question!_
And if you do have dietary limitations sometimes you just have to deal with them. When I used to fly on business half the time I couldn’t eat the in-flight meals due to my food allergies - and 30,000 feet is no place for a medical emergency. So I’d eat something before I got on the plane, and something after. I don’t expect the world to change everything for my benefit.
This was a lot of fun in France - in addition to misunderstanding there was also a language barrier. Quite a bit of the time I didn’t eat in restaurants - I walked into a grocery store and bought sandwhich stuff. Ate a lot of bread, cheese, and fruit while I was there. But it’s doable.
I, too, get pissed off at people who claim allergies who don’t have them, or exaggerate (not every food allergy is a deadly risk - some just make you puke and shit liquid and itch for three days). It makes life _even harder_ for those of us who have to deal with this problem. If a vegetarian (even a vegan) accidentally eats an animal product, if a diabetic gets a fragment of sugar, it won’t kill them - likely won’t even make them ill - but a severely allergic person getting even a 'teeney tiny bit" of something CAN die from it.
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### Author:  [@BewareTheLlama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BewareTheLlama)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/94 "2003-04-12T11:54:10Z")
[http://maddox.xmission.com/sponsor.html](http://maddox.xmission.com/sponsor.html)
This is related to vegitarianism and I found it to be both extremely funny and effective if put into use…
> [@](#):
>
> What does it mean to sponsor a vegetarian? It means that you have to find someone in your life who’s a really big pain in everyone’s ass every time you want to go out to eat, and then you commit yourself to eating THREE times the amount of meat you’d normally consume to make up for all the meat that your vegetarian buddy isn’t eating. It’s that simple! That way, you can reverse the guilt trip that they’ve been laying on us for years by not only neutralizing their cause, but making it actually worse by eating more animals than would have ever been eaten had they not chosen to become vegetarians!
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### Author:  [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/95 "2003-04-12T13:49:08Z")
I am a vegetarian who can’t eat meat cause of my weird blood. I always tell people before going to their house to eat, and I’ve never had a problem. However, if anyone started in on how bad animals raised for food are treated, I’d do my best John Travolta imitation:
- Yeah, but pork tastes good. Bacon tastes good. \*
Anyone with severe food restrictions should offer to bring their own, like the couple I know who are very strictly kosher. They don’t even allow dairy in their house.
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### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/96 "2003-04-12T14:05:17Z")
Cooking meat in vegetables for someone you already know is vegan is inviting them to dinner under false premises. How hard is it to understand that’s a jackass, and unethical, thing to do?
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### Author:  [@Exgineer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exgineer)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/97 "2003-04-12T14:25:28Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Monty \*
> \*\*Cooking meat in vegetables for someone you already know is vegan is inviting them to dinner under false premises. How hard is it to understand that’s a jackass, and unethical, thing to do? \*\*
Did you even read the thread?
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### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/98 "2003-04-12T14:58:16Z")
Why, yes, I did read the thread, Ex. I also read the OP.
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### Author:  [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/99 "2003-04-12T15:12:11Z")
I get internally annoyed when people say they are allergic to things they are obviously not allergic to - insisting on decaf coffee because they’re “deathly allergic” to caffeine, said while they’re drinking iced tea as exampled above, for instance. Or even people who say they are allergic to cigarette smoke (it is possible to have a histamine reaction to smoke, but a technical ALLERGY can only occur when there are proteins present and cigarette smoke is not a protein.) I say “internally annoyed” because the Straight Doper inside me wants to reach out and strangle someone for being inaccurate, but the socially acceptable me nods politely and pours the decaf and puts the cigarette out.
But here’s the thing - I have a weird reaction to milk. I CAN eat cheese, ice cream, butter, yogurt and whipped cream in very small amounts. I get very gassy and uncomfortable when I’ve had too much, but it’s not life-threatening. But if I drink a glass of milk, or have a bowl of cereal, it’s a guaranteed trip to the hospital, because for some reason this has, in the past, caused me to develop something called an “ileus” in my intestine - very painful and very dangerous. To make a long story short, when someone offers me a glass of milk or an ice cream sundae, I simply say “Thanks, but I’m allergic to milk.” I am NOT allergic, but I don’t feel the need to go into my own particular gastrointestinal history every time someone offers to take me out for ice cream. Thus, when someone says to me, “I can’t have X because I am allergic” I simply assume that they do not want X for whatever reason they may have. allergy or no, and I accommodate their request. What’s so hard about that?
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### Author:  [@Gundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gundy)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2003, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/100 "2003-04-12T15:19:20Z")
Who’s arguing with you, **Monty**? The OP didn’t put meat or meat broth on her vegetables, she put butter, which would have been fine for a vegetarian as opposed to a vegan. The OP is clearly not being a jackass, her guest was. So I don’t understand your comment.
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