# Open letter to the Vegan Bitch
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [April 11, 2003, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063 "2003-04-11T16:36:59Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 8
### Author:  [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2003, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/141 "2003-04-13T15:14:44Z")
I guess I should fill in the rest of the story – after some awkwardness I confessed to her about how scary I found that recipe. And she admitted it probably was the wrong choice to give a newbie to COOK as opposed to simply EATING, when the similarity to meatloaf would have been reassuring.
Anyway, I eventually did have them over for meals several times, including much, much simpler vegan dishes along with some meat ‘tainted’ stuff for us. And we ate at her house a few times. We’d eat and have a good time and say goodbye…and then hit a fastfood joint for a burger on the way home.
What can I say? We’re confirmed carnivores and gotta get our fix.
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### Author:  [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2003, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/142 "2003-04-13T15:15:50Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Binarydrone \*
> \*\ ***gobeaaar** , 100% anecdotal info here, but I am pretty sure that if you have not been eating animal products for several years that you get less good at dealing with them. My personal case in point was one Thanksgiving (several years after I had gone veg.) I ate a bunch of stuffing that (unbeknownst to me) had been cooked inside the bird. Several hours later I spent quite a while “sitting on the throne” in distress. I did not find out until later that I had consumed turkey product.
>
> This is not to say that there is not a psychological element, but I am pretty sure that a physical component is a part of the mix. \*\*
Anecdotal as well, but I have had the same experience. I used to be a vegetarian (not vegan,) and would _very rarely_ eat meat. I was working on my sister in law’s grandmother’s farm one day (she was old and infirm and needed help getting rid of a deadfall) and she made us lunch - fried chicken fried in lard.
Southern staple food, and it was wonderful at the time…but tasted significantly worse when it came up again 20 minutes later.
I ran out to the treeline to puke so she’d never know it made me sick.
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### Author:  [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2003, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/143 "2003-04-13T16:01:16Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by milroyj \*
> \*\*Sorry, but that ain’t butter, by definition.
>
> “A solid emulsion of fat globules, air, and water made by churnng milk or cream and used as food.”
>
> That has been the definition of butter since the 12th Century, for heaven’s sake, quit making shit up. (not you Ava, but vegans in general). \*\*
This is the kind of bullshit that as a vegan, pisses me off. Who the fuck cares _what_ we call a _butter substitute_ or a burger substitute or a milk subsitute or whatever? I refused to go grocery shopping with my boyfriend for awhile because he would always make comments like **milroyj** about what seemed like the name of every frickin’ thing I picked up. Seriously, what the fuck do you care? I wasn’t aware that vegans as a whole needed permission from meat eaters for what we named certain things. :rolleyes: This is just an example of what us nonconfrontational vegans and vegetarians have to deal with on a consistant basis.
Oh, and **gobear** you can definately get sick from meat products if you haven’t eaten them in awhile. I was at a resteraunt once and two bites into my veggie stirfry realized the rice was cooked in chicken broth (I can usually tell real quick if anything has meat products in it) I quit eating eating it and honest to goodness tried to forget about it (I only had two small bites it’s not going to make me sick, ect.) sure enough, a few hours later I was yackin’ in the bathroom. I’ve also come home from events sometimes and in a couple of hours found myself spending the rest of the evening in the bathroom without having known I’d ingested animal products. I’ll mentally go through everything I ate and then recall something that may have been sketchy. So it’s most certainly not “just in your heads” And for arguments sake, even if it was, is that any reason for a vegan or vegetarian to go against their beliefs and eat meat just to please someone else? :dubious:
And \*\*Ginger, \*\* I too, would love that recipe. I love cooking and have some awesome recipies myself, including one for some kickass vegan brownies. Everyone I know loves 'em (and i’m the only vegan I know!) I can’t tell people when I make them, because they’ll be gone before I can even get one! Care to exchange? 😃
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### Author:  [@Exgineer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exgineer)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2003, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/144 "2003-04-13T17:00:21Z")
I’m really not trying to be a jerk here, **lezlers** , but I want to reiterate that I have no idea what the term “vegan” means. More accurately, I didn’t before reading this thread, and now I have the beginnings of an idea.
If all you said to me before now was “vegan butter” without mentioning that it was actually a substitute and not really butter at all I would probably drive myself batty at the dairy case looking for it. See, you would be assuming that I knew what “vegan” meant, and I would be assuming that you meant some exotic form of real butter (like hormone-free unsalted, or something), and we’d both be wrong. In my opinion, that would mean that we shared responsibilty for the screw-up. _That’s_ why I care about terminology.
Damn, this stuff is complicated.
I’d also like to apologize to **Monty** for the snarky “did you read the thread” post in response to a simple misunderstanding.
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### Author:  [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2003, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/145 "2003-04-13T17:14:19Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by milroyj \*
> \*\*Sorry, but that ain’t butter, by definition.
>
> “A solid emulsion of fat globules, air, and water made by churnng milk or cream and used as food.”
>
> That has been the definition of butter since the 12th Century, for heaven’s sake, quit making shit up. (not you Ava, but vegans in general). \*\*
Yes, and peanut butter is not, technically, butter, and apple butter is not, technically, butter, and cocoa butter is not, technically, butter, and butter of antimony is not, technically, butter.
Maybe if you were to read the entire dictionary entry, including “2. any of various substances somewhat like butter,” you’d have skipped this feeble attempt at making a point.
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### Author:  [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2003, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/146 "2003-04-13T17:17:31Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Miller \*
> \*\*I can eat tomato sauce, tomato soup, or ketchup. But I can’t eat raw tomatos. Why? Because biting into a raw tomato is exactly what I imagine biting into an eyeball must be like. Yeah, I know it’s stupid, but that doesn’t stop the gag reflex. \*\*
I’m not the only one! I can’t STAND the texture of raw tomatoes- they just make me feel REALLY icky. I’ve eaten them to be polite, but I try and _swallow_ them in pieces rather than chew on them…ick ick ick. My SO thinks I’m mad for not liking tomatoes, but what can I say? It’s the _texture_.
Same for pineapple. Just feeling a bit of pinapple in my mouth makes me gag - I can’t even eat them to be polite! I have tried, and I always end up trying to escape to the washroom to spit it out! I’ve learned to just not eat it, and explain to people that I simply have a taste aversion to it. It usually works.
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### Author:  [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2003, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/147 "2003-04-13T17:55:03Z")
**Exgineer**
You’re not coming across as a jerk at all, no worries. Vegan simply means no animal products, no meat, no dairy. Some eat honey and sugar, some do not, usually, they’ll let you know that in advance. Golden rule when dealing with a vegan or vegetarian: _if you’re not sure, ask_. Usually, a vegan wouldn’t suggest “vegan butter” they’d tell you a brand name. I don’t usually eat vegan butter, I eat margarine. So if someone asked about it, I’d give them a brand name easy to find in a grocery store. 😃
And **Nametag** , good answer, I didn’t even think about that. 😉
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### Author:  [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2003, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/148 "2003-04-13T20:12:41Z")
I posted the recipe [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=170210&highlight=recipe), **lezlers** , perhaps you will do the same?
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### Author:  [@Elza\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elza_B)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2003, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/149 "2003-04-13T20:13:41Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by milroyj \*
> \*\*Sorry, but that ain’t butter, by definition.
>
> “A solid emulsion of fat globules, air, and water made by churnng milk or cream and used as food.”
>
> That has been the definition of butter since the 12th Century, for heaven’s sake, quit making shit up. (not you Ava, but vegans in general). \*\*
LOL - well, that may be the standard definition, but it looks like butter and tastes like butter to me. So for all intents and purposes, it’s butter. Nah, it’s not _real_ butter from a cow, but it works.
As I’ve said in another thread, sometimes it’s just easier to refer to stuff by a common name (I’m technically a strict vegetarian, as I follow a vegan diet, but I don’t avoid animal products otherwise - however, when I say strict vegetarian, I get ‘what’s that?’ and when I say “I don’t eat meat, dairy or eggs”, I get “Oh, you’re vegan!”. It saves time for me.) than to say “Oh, it’s not butter, but it’s made from canola oil and soy products and it tastes like butter.”
Ava
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### Author:  [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2003, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/150 "2003-04-13T21:16:31Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by avabeth \*
> \*\*LOL - well, that may be the standard definition, but it looks like butter and tastes like butter to me. So for all intents and purposes, it’s butter. Nah, it’s not _real_ butter from a cow, but it works.
>
> As I’ve said in another thread, sometimes it’s just easier to refer to stuff by a common name (I’m technically a strict vegetarian, as I follow a vegan diet, but I don’t avoid animal products otherwise - however, when I say strict vegetarian, I get ‘what’s that?’ and when I say “I don’t eat meat, dairy or eggs”, I get “Oh, you’re vegan!”. It saves time for me.) than to say “Oh, it’s not butter, but it’s made from canola oil and soy products and it tastes like butter.”
>
> Ava \*\*
Thanks for the clarifacation. Why don’t you just say margarine, instead of vegan butter?
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### Author:  [@Profane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Profane)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/151 "2003-04-13T21:31:04Z")
Why do you care? Lots of people call margerine butter.
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### Author:  [@Mr.Matthew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Matthew)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2003, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/152 "2003-04-13T21:32:59Z")
No, Parkay.
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### Author:  [@Elza\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elza_B)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2003, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/153 "2003-04-13T21:35:16Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by milroyj \*
> \*\*Thanks for the clarifacation. Why don’t you just say margarine, instead of vegan butter? \*\*
I could do that. I refer to it as vegan butter in my head, so that’s how it comes out. But I think it might even be on the package as margarine. But that’s just an old habit, nothing to do with veganism at all - in my house, even if we were eating margarine, we still called it butter. I don’t think I’ve ever used the word margarine in daily conversation - it’s always been butter.
Ava
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### Author:  [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2003, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/154 "2003-04-14T02:14:01Z")
and **Milroyj** , as **LunaSea** asked: _why do you care?_ Why do you even feel the need to demand justification?
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### Author:  [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2003, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/155 "2003-04-14T05:58:31Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by GingerOfTheNorth \*
> \*\*I posted the recipe [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=170210&highlight=recipe), **lezlers** , perhaps you will do the same? \*\*
Thank you for posting your recipe. Please never hesitate to contribute.
[gratuitous foul language]
#@\*%^@$#%!
[/gratuitous foul language]
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### Author:  [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2003, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/156 "2003-04-14T06:32:52Z")
I watched [The Three Emperors Dinner](http://www.abc.net.au/tv/documentaries/stories/s814454.htm) recently on TV. The documentary is about a $3,500 per head recreation of a famous meal. The profits were given to charity. What is not revealed in the review in the link is that as the cooks were preparing to serve the first course one of the guests revealed that they were a vegan. This person had paid $3,500 to attend a recreation of a French dinner from 1867 and had not thought to pass on this little titbit of information.
The kitchen staff managed to accomodate the vegan.
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### Author:  [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2003, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/157 "2003-04-14T07:18:07Z")
Y’know, with all the stories of people “sneaking” stuff to folks who claim to have allergies, I’m surprised someone hasn’t been arrested or sued for killing someone that way yet…
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### Author:  [@Rigel\_Haloran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigel_Haloran)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2003, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/158 "2003-04-14T07:34:33Z")
More anecdotal:
I’m lactose intolerant. Before I had ever even heard the term or even of the possibility I started having severe distress after having any dairy product (and GOD but I missed ice cream until I discovered Lactaid).
I also cannot eat crab or lobster. No allergy, but when I was on the Usetafish I was served one that had been thawed and refrozen several times over the course of about 3 months. The stench was so bad that the smell of either now makes me nausious.
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### Author:  [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2003, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/159 "2003-04-14T10:59:35Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by LifeOnWry \*
> \*\*My point exactly. Which is why I say I am allergic to milk, since nobody REALLY wants to know that drinking milk makes me a fartin’ machine.
> \*\*
But if they snuck milk on you, they’d find out with or without your expressly saying so. People have found out the hard way not to do that to Other SpazSister (not to be confused with Dr. SpazSister who is completely different).
Sometimes I feel incredibly fortunate that my only food sensitivities are to apple juice (which means I can’t drink most fruit juices) and barbecue. Now that second one gets me some strange looks around here, but people who matter know not to get me near the stuff. Bad digestive things happen when they do, **lieu** -type Bad Things.
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### Author:  [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2003, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-the-vegan-bitch/168063/160 "2003-04-14T13:08:30Z")
I’ve enver been able to figure out why people claim they don’t like tofu!
It doesn’t have a taste, so it can’t taste bad!
weird…
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