# Open letter to western governments re: NSA and related topics. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 7, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-western-governments-re-nsa-and-related-topics/668266 "2013-09-07T18:52:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-western-governments-re-nsa-and-related-topics/668266/61 "2015-02-23T12:03:03Z")
> [@The\_Antichrist](#): > > I think that ISIL is a group that is told what to do by the CIA or someone, I don’t think it’s a real thing, and maybe they actually used some of my ideas to concoct the lie. …You certainly do think rather highly of yourself, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-western-governments-re-nsa-and-related-topics/668266/62 "2015-02-23T12:41:50Z")
How old are you, **The Antichrist**? I also value privacy but I’m approaching old-age. Among the young, the concern-for-privacy ship has largely sailed already via Facebook etc. > [@The\_Antichrist](#): > > To all western governments: I hate you very much. I will spend every day of my life trying to bring you down. Your very existence is illegitimate, you say you are democracies but you are not: you have so many secrets and lies that your people do not know what they are voting for. It’s difficult to say how much I hate you without implying criminal intent… maybe: I wish you prolonged misery? Many governments, Western or not, are corrupt. I live in Thailand where, fortunately, the government is still too incompetent to inflict some of your concerns. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-western-governments-re-nsa-and-related-topics/668266/63 "2015-02-23T14:25:22Z")
I can’t seem to determine the nature of his game. It’s troubling me. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-western-governments-re-nsa-and-related-topics/668266/64 "2015-02-23T15:18:09Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Need to rewrite. For one thing, every time we think we know just how bad the surveillance state has gotten, it turns out to be [even](http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/16/us-usa-cyberspying-idUSKBN0LK1QV20150216) [worse](http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/nsa-gchq-sim-card-hack-snowden-leak-news/). ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-western-governments-re-nsa-and-related-topics/668266/65 "2015-02-23T15:39:31Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > For one thing, every time we think we know just how bad the surveillance state has gotten, it turns out to be [even](http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/16/us-usa-cyberspying-idUSKBN0LK1QV20150216) [worse](http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/nsa-gchq-sim-card-hack-snowden-leak-news/). If by “bad” you mean “successful”. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-western-governments-re-nsa-and-related-topics/668266/66 "2015-02-23T16:14:27Z")
Knowledge is power. Governments seek power, especially a hegemon like the United States or various Western European nations, and they’ll do their best to get it. Appeals to terrorism or the drug war are the barest of fig leaves. If it’s any comfort it’s unlikely you’re of much interest to them unless you’re a politician, a member of a protest group, or an important cog in the international corporate world. Go hog wild on the midget clown porn. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-western-governments-re-nsa-and-related-topics/668266/67 "2015-02-23T16:16:12Z")
> [@The\_Antichrist](#): > > The city I live in I have lived in for most of my life, and am from the same ethnicity and culture as most of the inhabitants, but just because I appreciate other cultures, and think dark people are just as good as white people, and speak up about corruption, I am considered suspicious and dangerous. What?? “Considered dangerous” by who? Do you have any proof that “they” are watching you more closely than anyone else? > [@](#): > > They won’t let me have friends or have a girlfriend. I text-messaged a young woman I have a romantic interest in some feminist stuff, saying she didn’t have to do what men told her, and now my mother has stolen my phone. I think they think I am going to “steal their women”. Uhh… I bet she “stole” your phone based on some other reason. > [@](#): > > So, there’s one example of what incredible misery the terrorism lie is causing, and I ask for it to end. Let me get this straight: the Government is secretly pulling the strings of ISIL to prevent you from dating a girl? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-western-governments-re-nsa-and-related-topics/668266/68 "2015-02-23T16:25:49Z")
Why are ambulances stalking you through various countries? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-western-governments-re-nsa-and-related-topics/668266/69 "2015-02-23T16:28:22Z")
> [@The\_Antichrist](#): > > I do hope to bring down corrupt governments through…love, though. Give 'em the buttsex. Governments love the buttsex. > [@](#): > > I ask for it to end. It is ended. All you had to do was ask. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-western-governments-re-nsa-and-related-topics/668266/70 "2015-02-23T16:44:25Z")
I’m sure the western governments will be getting back to you any moment now. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-western-governments-re-nsa-and-related-topics/668266/71 "2015-02-23T17:02:32Z")
> [@The\_Antichrist](#): > > Here is the “letter”: > As information is revealed about the National Security Agency and the intelligence agencies of other countries, it is becoming increasingly clear that western governments do not only monitor the private communications of suspected murderers. Rather, they monitor the private communications of whomever they please. While the former is distasteful and beneath my standards, the latter is quite intolerable. > > A typical response is “if you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear”. Apart from being untrue, it implies you oughtn’t hide things. I strongly disagree and I have much to hide: my private things. Another response is “every country does that”. Well that wouldn’t make it OK… and does Afghanistan collect the personal information of American or British citizens? Does, say, Mozambique, or Cambodia? No? Then back off. > > It surprises me that people don’t understand privacy. It is a concept fundamental to humanity, perhaps to life in general. Many animals, cats for instance, seek privacy to defecate and to copulate, amongst other reasons. Would you read someone’s personal diary? Would you look through a stranger’s house? What you do is much the same, and the fact that you have spied in ways the world was not aware of adds another layer to your cruelty. So far, so good. Self-righteous and not particularly new or interesting, but I follow you and agree. > [@](#): > > Perhaps some will claim that we don’t want privacy anymore, or that we can’t have privacy these days. Well I for one am going to be different. In fact I have loads and loads of private things, that I will never let governments see. They could be plots and plans to blow up buildings or assassinate people. It’s not your business. They could be chemicals and electronics useful for making bombs. It’s not your business. They could be boxes and boxes of papers and photos and books that document all the dreadful things you’ve done over the years. IT’S NOT YOUR BUSINESS. Congratulations, now I feel like someone should issue a warrant to wiretap you. …And then from there it just goes straight down the crazy spiral. > [@toofs](#): > > Uh, what? I’m going to give you (and **The Antichrist** , and anyone else reading this) the same advice I always give when it comes to **Smapti**. Ignore. As in, go to his profile and click “ignore this user”. This guy, while not _incapable_ of rational thought, is clearly some sort of alien life form who has no grasp of simple concepts such as freedom, privacy, or morality not being the same thing as “what the government says”. Just put him on block, and thank me later. > [@The\_Antichrist](#): > > There are many I could post, but I’d be afraid of what might happen to the people who wrote them. You know what the difference is between a source you can’t show anyone and a source that doesn’t exist? Me neither. > [@The\_Antichrist](#): > > This also isn’t fair… No, what’s not fair is saying “I have important information that I will not share for reasons I will not explain”. I’m sorry, but if you can’t share your sources, then we can’t evaluate your sources. I’m not going to take your word for it. > [@](#): > > Well if we _must_ have laws and governments, how about this: have a set of relatively simple laws that the general public can understand. Then police those laws consistently and transparently. Are you like, 15 or something? Because I remember when I was 15, I had these grand ideas about how to fix the broken government. And then I took a civics class and learned that the reason the Bundesgesetzbuch is over a thousand pages long is because the world is a complicated, messy place, and simple, clear-cut, and transparent isn’t always possible. Sometimes, things are going to get messy. Case in point: > [@](#): > > There is absolutely no need for a government to snoop or keep secrets. Oh? How about law enforcement tracking a group of suspected terrorists. Would it be better if the government was totally transparent about tracking them? No, of course not - they’d scatter, and the effort would have been for naught. How 'bout when they have a warrant for surveillance methods, and need to gather more evidence on a suspect? What if a foreign, ostensibly friendly government is making clandestine moves on us? Again, the world is a messy, complicated place. There’s a need for privacy, yes. The government should not have free reign to do whatever it wants. But if you’re going to claim that the government never needs to keep secrets, I’m going to refer you to the _real world_, where that just ain’t true. > [@The\_Antichrist](#): > > after having been stalked by police cars and ambulances through various countries. Are we speaking from personal experience about those meds? I’m not joking, by the way. This sounds phenomenally paranoid, and not in a good way. > [@](#): > > I think the people of my society think I am a terrorist Dude, what _is_ your society? We have no context for anything you’re saying. Almost none of it makes any sense, and most of it sounds downright unbelievable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-letter-to-western-governments-re-nsa-and-related-topics/668266.md?page=3)