# Open marriage, vunerability or fucking stupidity? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 13, 2002, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-marriage-vunerability-or-fucking-stupidity/132048 "2002-10-13T04:27:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-marriage-vunerability-or-fucking-stupidity/132048/21 "2002-10-13T20:17:46Z")
“Hey, Bill?” “Yeah, Bob?” “You see how that section of rail isn’t connected to the rest of the track?” “Yup.” “Won’t that cause some sort of problem for the train when it comes along?” “Yup.” ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-marriage-vunerability-or-fucking-stupidity/132048/22 "2002-10-13T20:18:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\* > > Or her friend was embarrassed shitless (and rightly so, IMHO)about being in some sort of bizarre Caligulan relationship, and didn’t want her (presumably) normal friend to know. \*\* Yet more judgment from the knuckledragging neanderthal segment of the population. ---
**Author:** ![MamaHen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@MamaHen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MamaHen)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-marriage-vunerability-or-fucking-stupidity/132048/23 "2002-10-13T20:19:05Z")
Stepping in with my two cents. The hostility here is amazing. The girl in the op went into a situation she thought she could handle, maybe she’s learned she can’t. There’s no right or wrong here, it’s just another lesson learned in life. You try something out sometimes it fits, sometimes it doesn’t. Just be there to support your friend, don’t try to judge what she’s gone through. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-marriage-vunerability-or-fucking-stupidity/132048/24 "2002-10-13T20:30:48Z")
I just wanted to disassociate myself from posters who are judging polyamoury; my post was in response to the statement in the OP: \*\* > [@](#): > > I say this, since she has expressed numerous times how she wants to settle down and have a family. So, what the hell is she doing with someone that can’t provide the lifestyle she wants?!\*\* I am not making any judgements about polyamoury; if it’s working, I couldn’t care less how the arrangements are made. My issue with this, and what I believe is the issue of the OP as well, is that her friend is not going to be okay with this arrangement because it doesn’t suit what she wants out of life. The polyamoury aspect of it is a red herring; the real issue (to me, at least) is that her friend is setting herself up for failure in this relationship, and doesn’t have enough faith in herself and her lovability to move on to find a more complete relationship with someone who can provide what she’s looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-marriage-vunerability-or-fucking-stupidity/132048/25 "2002-10-13T20:35:06Z")
With respect to featherlou, could it be that the woman has been blindsided by a love she did not expect, and as it does not have the shape of what she wants therein lies the conflict? Maybe the problem is, that as this is not what she wants, leaving is hard because love is involved. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-marriage-vunerability-or-fucking-stupidity/132048/26 "2002-10-13T20:44:07Z")
There can be a lot of benefits to being the “mistress” of a married man. Children, marriage and holidays are seldom among those benefits. But if your friend is looking for someone who flatters her, who spends time with her but for whom she never has to do wash or buy socks - getting involved as the “secondary” in an open marriage can be quite the deal. Here is the bright side - it is open for him, it is open for her. If she wants to date other people she can, and she doesn’t need to cut the strings and dump him to do it. This should give her additional security to date. So, she keeps her married guy, she dates. Eventually she meets someone she’d like to get serious with and she dumps married guy. (But yes, long term poly arrangments can work - but it has to be what she wants. If she is looking for kids and a white picket fence, this guy isn’t going to give it to her.) ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-marriage-vunerability-or-fucking-stupidity/132048/27 "2002-10-13T20:47:13Z")
Mistress? How is she the mistress? Damn. Some mighty judgmental words and statements are being tossed around in this thread in a fairly cavalier fashion. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-marriage-vunerability-or-fucking-stupidity/132048/28 "2002-10-13T20:52:56Z")
She’s not the wife, is she? “Mistress” seems like an appropriate term to me. It doesn’t have to be a negative term. And, the phrase “fucking idiotic” (while possibly sounding a bit harsh) can reasonably be applied to anyone who gets into a situation which is _destined_ to not supply them with their heart’s desire from the get-go. My heart goes out to this woman, it truly does. And I understand and when love is involved, it’s sometimes difficult to use common sense. But still—common sense would dictate that if you want to settle down and all that, getting involved with a married man in an “open” relationship isn’t going to even remotely hack it. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-marriage-vunerability-or-fucking-stupidity/132048/29 "2002-10-13T20:56:02Z")
Mistress strikes me as a term that applies to an affair and a woman who knowingly sleeps with a married man without the wife knowing. That is not the case here. No affair, the wife knows, and has a lover of her own. ---
**Author:** ![MamaHen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@MamaHen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MamaHen)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-marriage-vunerability-or-fucking-stupidity/132048/30 "2002-10-13T20:59:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > \*\*And, the phrase “fucking idiotic” (while possibly sounding a bit harsh) can reasonably be applied to anyone who gets into a situation which is _destined_ to not supply them with their heart’s desire from the get-go. \*\* I dunno, maybe you are more advanced than the rest of us in the world but who knows right off what their heart’s desire is? Not a single person I’ve ever met or talked to has figured that one out without trying a few things first. Maybe for some it was dating around, for others it was trying different lifestyles, the fact is that most people live and learn. Common sense says everyone wants to be loved, who are we to judge how others find that love? ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-marriage-vunerability-or-fucking-stupidity/132048/31 "2002-10-13T21:13:01Z")
> [@](#): > > I dunno, maybe you are more advanced than the rest of us in the world but who knows right off what their heart’s desire is? I am not the OP and I don’t know this woman personally, so I can only go by what the OP says as far as what this woman wants. But it doesn’t take the wisdom of the ages to figure out that if you want to “settle down”, a married guy in an “open relationship” probably isn’t the place to find it. > [@](#): > > Common sense says everyone wants to be loved, who are we to judge how others find that love? Not judging, just putting two and two together, and not seeing any evidence that this woman was _ever_ going be able to “settle down” (which was what she wanted) in this current situation. As I said before, my heart goes out to her. She’s not the first person (and won’t be the last) to make such a choice—it’s just that the potential for her complete and unfettered satisfaction and happiness in this current situation seems highly unlikely. And I doubt she is unaware of that, or ever was unaware of that (not completely, anyway). That is all. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-marriage-vunerability-or-fucking-stupidity/132048/32 "2002-10-13T21:16:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hastur \* > \*\* > > Yet more judgment from the knuckledragging neanderthal segment of the population. \*\* Ahh. Well, seeing as that you are some freakish bdsm type, you may want a few years of therapy before opening your mouth regarding healthy relationships. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-marriage-vunerability-or-fucking-stupidity/132048/33 "2002-10-13T21:22:49Z")
Perhaps you might introduce your friend to the [alt.polyamory newsgroup and web page](http://www.polyamory.org/). Chatting or even just lurking there might help your friend clarify what she wants and whether the poly relationship she is in will meet such needs, or will prevent her from meeting such needs. The friendly folks there are not judgmental, and are not out to sell polyamory, but rather are there to sensibly and sensitively discuss such issues as your friend is facing. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-marriage-vunerability-or-fucking-stupidity/132048/34 "2002-10-13T21:24:53Z")
No Hastur, the term for that is Slut. Bimbo works too. When my ex was cheating on me, I would have never glorified that Bimbo with the term Mistress. Mistress is a perfectly acceptable term. It seems especially appropriate in this relationship, since she is not a second wife - i.e. there is apparently no committment and they don’t spend holidays as a family. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-marriage-vunerability-or-fucking-stupidity/132048/35 "2002-10-13T21:26:21Z")
Acceptable to you, perhaps. I question whether it would be acceptable to her. It seems loaded and judgemental to me. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-marriage-vunerability-or-fucking-stupidity/132048/36 "2002-10-13T23:26:12Z")
Well, I _was_ going to say that I didn’t see the level of hostility Hastur was talking about, but then Brutus and Dangerosa started using some really loaded language . . . Hastur, I’ll take your word that there are healthy polyamorous relationships out there, if you’ll take my word that _I_ haven’t seen any of them through first, second, or third hand experience. I have, unfortunately, seen more than a handful of “open” relationships that were dishonest, manipulative, and way unhealthy. The trouble for Stiffler’s Mom’s friend is that she isn’t looking for what a polyamorous relationship offers. She wants a monogamous relationship. Now, maybe she didn’t really understand the emotional consequences when she got into this. Maybe she kinda did, but that understanding was outweighed by her need to be loved by someone (hey, I understand. BeLIEVE me, I understand.). Maybe she thought she understood, but didn’t really. At this point, all that doesn’t really matter. What matters now is that she’s in a very bad place, she needs to get out, and Stiffler’s Mom is worried about her. And, it sounds to me like Stiffler’s Mom is going to be a great support and resource for her friend. If the friend can pull herself out of her very bad place and learn from what brought her there, then she’ll do better in the future. If not, Stiffler’s Mom is likely to see a lot more of the same. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-marriage-vunerability-or-fucking-stupidity/132048/37 "2002-10-13T23:30:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\* Ahh. Well, seeing as that you are some freakish bdsm type, you may want a few years of therapy before opening your mouth regarding healthy relationships. \*\* I’m **very** interested in knowing how “not opposed to polyamory” = “freakish bdsm type,” there, Sunshine. Since people are arguing the same old shit, and I think I made a (reasonable, non-judgemental) point waaaaaaaaaaay back in the thread, I’ll just go ahead and quote myself: > [@](#): > > There are plenty of polyamorous relationships in which mutual love and respect between all parties involved is present and no one is “missing out” on ANYTHING. > > If she is unable to share this man emotionally, yes, she has to give him up. Period. It’s not a character flaw and it’s not a Bad Thing. It’s just the way a person’s wired. If she’s not wired that way…she needs to get out NOW, because he IS wired that way and she will never have the variety of fulfillment that she needs. ---
**Author:** ![hardygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@hardygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hardygrrl)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-marriage-vunerability-or-fucking-stupidity/132048/38 "2002-10-13T23:37:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dangerosa \* > \*\*No Hastur, the term for that is Slut. Bimbo works too. When my ex was cheating on me, I would have never glorified that Bimbo with the term Mistress. > > Mistress is a perfectly acceptable term. It seems especially appropriate in this relationship, since she is not a second wife - i.e. there is apparently no committment and they don’t spend holidays as a family. \*\* I refer you to this… > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Stiffler’s Mom_ > > his 15 year “open-marriage”. (Keep in mind that his wife has a boyfriend too). I think using ‘slut’ and ‘bimbo’ is uncalled for, and possibly you projecting your past experiences onto this situation. From what **Stiffler’s Mom** posted, everyone involved (her friend, friends SO and SO’s wife) is aware of the situation and has no problems with it. The friend just wants something the SO is not ready/wanting to give her. **Stiffler’s Mom** , be an ear as a shoulder for your friend. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-marriage-vunerability-or-fucking-stupidity/132048/39 "2002-10-13T23:44:47Z")
> [@](#): > > I think using ‘slut’ and ‘bimbo’ is uncalled for, and possibly you projecting your past experiences onto this situation. I took Dangerosa’s statement completely differently. I believe she was making the **distinction** between “mistress” (merely meaning a woman having a relationship with a man who is already married) and a “slut” and “bimbo” (meaning, a woman who was helping a slimball husband _sneak_ and _lie_ to his unsuspecting and trusting wife, who went into the marriage with the expectation that he would be a faithful and truthful husband). ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-marriage-vunerability-or-fucking-stupidity/132048/40 "2002-10-14T00:00:42Z")
I definitely got the same impression as **yosemitebabe**. And I also agree with **Hamadryad** ’s quote. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-marriage-vunerability-or-fucking-stupidity/132048.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-marriage-vunerability-or-fucking-stupidity/132048.md?page=3)