# Open Source Ventilators? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [March 19, 2020, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-source-ventilators/849835 "2020-03-19T20:01:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2020, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-source-ventilators/849835/1 "2020-03-19T20:01:59Z")
So one of the critical items necessary are ventilators, needed for critically ill patients with severe COVID-19 infections. Some companies that don’t normally make ventilators, like Airbus or Rolls-Royce, are investigating whether their assembly lines can be used for manufacturing them. (Sort of like how many factories in WWII were repurposed to make stuff for the war.) I wonder if it would be useful for _someone_ to publish a sort-of public domain ventilator design, so that other companies can make them or at least could consider doing so. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2020, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-source-ventilators/849835/2 "2020-03-19T20:18:24Z")
Elon Musk tweeted that he could make them. > **[Tesla Workers Told California Plant Is ‘Critical Infrastructure’ Amid...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2020/03/19/elon-musk-says-tesla-willing-to-make-ventilators-for-coronavirus-patients-amid-flap-over-california-plant-operations/#5c51f5d5843d)** > > The mercurial billionaire took to Twitter to say his electric car company is willing to produce the critical medical devices for hospitals running short of them. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2020, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-source-ventilators/849835/3 "2020-03-19T20:19:06Z")
Seems like it’s [already happening](https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/19/open-source-project-spins-up-3d-printed-ventilator-validation-prototype-in-just-one-week/). It does feel like this is something that can happen. The one from the article needs a few precision parts; stepper motors, bearings, and rods. But those are all common, off the shelf items. The remaining parts, custom brackets and the like, can be 3D printed or machined on just about any CNC machine. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2020, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-source-ventilators/849835/4 "2020-03-19T20:22:14Z")
God damn. A few days ago I heard an open source ventilator project made out of 3D printed parts was starting up. I figured maybe they were only getting somewhere, but apparently they have a working prototype already, only after 7 days. > **[Open-source project spins up 3D-printed ventilator validation prototype in...](https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/19/open-source-project-spins-up-3d-printed-ventilator-validation-prototype-in-just-one-week/)** > > In a great example of what can happen when smart, technically-oriented people come together in a time of need, an open-source hardware project started by > [@](#): > > In a great example of what can happen when smart, technically-oriented people come together in a time of need, an open-source hardware project started by a group including Irish entrepreneur Colin Keogh and Breeze Automation CEO and co-founder Gui Calavanti has produced a prototype ventilator using 3D-printed parts and readily available, inexpensive material. The ventilator prototype was designed and produced in just seven days, after the project spun up on Facebook and attracted participation from over 300 engineers, medical professionals and researchers. > > The prototype will now enter into a validation process by the Irish Health Services Executive (HSE), the country’s health regulatory body. This will technically only validate it for use in Ireland, which ironically looks relatively well-stocked for ventilator hardware, but it will be a key stamp of approval that could pave the way for its deployment across countries where there are shortages, including low-income nations. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2020, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-source-ventilators/849835/5 "2020-03-19T20:39:15Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > Elon Musk tweeted that he could make them. > > [https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2020/03/19/elon-musk-says-tesla-willing-to-make-ventilators-for-coronavirus-patients-amid-flap-over-california-plant-operations/#5c51f5d5843d](https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2020/03/19/elon-musk-says-tesla-willing-to-make-ventilators-for-coronavirus-patients-amid-flap-over-california-plant-operations/#5c51f5d5843d) His statement was a little ridiculous; “We will make ventilators if there is a shortage”. I don’t think there is any question that there is a shortage. And he’s still keeping his Fremont plant open, despite the local shelter-in-place ordinance. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2020, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-source-ventilators/849835/6 "2020-03-19T21:03:18Z")
I saw something last night about needing valves that the company that makes them was out of. The problem made it’s way to the internet and people started 3D printing them. I have a 3D printer, depending on a few variables, printing these is likely trivial. Give me (or anyone with a printer) the file, a few tweaks to make it work for you printer and they can probably get knocked out pretty quickly. Then, I started wondering how, or if, they’re getting tested. Making sure they’re mechanically sound and do what they’re supposed to do is easy. But what about the material. Without direction, the vast majority of people are going to use PLA (and probably in whatever color they already have loaded or want to get rid of). Will that off gas? What about the the other materials? Will there be problems with those? Is someone going to make sure there’s no little threads of filament fluttering around inside that could get into someone’s airway? I still want to look into the project, hopefully some of those questions are answered. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2020, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-source-ventilators/849835/7 "2020-03-19T21:05:25Z")
It’s not just a mechanical device; I assume there are electronics involved and that can’t be printed using a 3D printer. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2020, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-source-ventilators/849835/8 "2020-03-19T21:07:24Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > It’s not just a mechanical device; I assume there are electronics involved and that can’t be printed using a 3D printer. A cheap Arduino and a few stepper motor drivers can accomplish quite a lot. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2020, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-source-ventilators/849835/9 "2020-03-19T21:41:04Z")
As an engineer, I would be loathe to trust my life to some cobbled-together 3D-printed device. It might be better than nothing, but it might also be worse. Without testing and QC, theses things would likely have enormous failure rates. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2020, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-source-ventilators/849835/10 "2020-03-19T21:51:54Z")
OK, but what about a ventilator built in a factory repurposed to build them in the present emergency? More trustworthy? ---
**Author:** ![This\_Just\_In\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@This\_Just\_In\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/This_Just_In_2)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2020, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-source-ventilators/849835/11 "2020-03-19T22:28:25Z")
Code Life Ventilator Challenge: $200k award to design a low-cost, simple, easy-to-use and easy-to-build ventilator for COVID patients by March 31st. > **[Agorize](https://www.agorize.com/en/challenges/code-life-challenge?lang=en)** > > To design a low-cost, simple, easy-to-use and easy-to-build ventilator that can serve the COVID patients, in an emergency timeframe. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2020, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-source-ventilators/849835/12 "2020-03-19T22:44:43Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > It’s not just a mechanical device; I assume there are electronics involved and that can’t be printed using a 3D printer. I’m not sure if that was directed at me since I don’t believe the valves I read about is the same story as the OP. However, what I saw was someone printing [these](https://www.medicaldevice-network.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2020/03/89996384_10222328772156304_3292612436959428608_o.jpg). No electronics, just a mechanical valve. The problem, as I read it, is that the valves are $11,000 AND the manufacturer isn’t able to make the amount the hospital needs. > [@beowulff](#): > > As an engineer, I would be loathe to trust my life to some cobbled-together 3D-printed device. > It might be better than nothing, but it might also be worse. > Without testing and QC, theses things would likely have enormous failure rates. That’s kinda the case here, it’s either that or nothing. But the second part of your quote is my concern. If we assume the valve operates perfectly, there’s still other issues like off gassing, debris in the valve etc. But again, it could be literally life or death in some cases. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2020, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-source-ventilators/849835/13 "2020-03-19T22:53:05Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > As an engineer, I would be loathe to trust my life to some cobbled-together 3D-printed device. I dunno. I haven’t exactly been impressed by most medical equipment I’ve seen. Nor have I come away with a positive impression of their approach to software from people that worked on that stuff. There’s no reason the device has to be “cobbled together”. Designed correctly, a 3D printed device can be just as reliable as any other. It’s not done because it’s slow and expensive compared to injection molding and the like, but that doesn’t matter so much in an emergency. The low-level mechanical components like motors can’t be printed, and will just be off the shelf stuff. The rest of it isn’t so critical and can be designed with the limitations of 3D printing in mind. And, all of this is irrelevant if we’re really talking about using idle CNC machines at Tesla or other automakers. You can make whatever you want with those (including injection molds, if it comes to it). ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-source-ventilators/849835/14 "2020-03-21T03:31:54Z")
A CPAP machine is a kind of ventilator. Not sure if they would be of any help but potentially. And a production line can be spun up pretty quickly if the parts are available.