# Open Spoilers - How does the Starship Troopers movie diverge from the book? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 28, 2008, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-spoilers-how-does-the-starship-troopers-movie-diverge-from-the-book/465596 "2008-09-28T18:23:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-spoilers-how-does-the-starship-troopers-movie-diverge-from-the-book/465596/61 "2008-09-29T20:44:47Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > Yes, but the Psi guys are **officers** , which would seem to indicate that they’re neither civilians or contractors. Rico gets warned by his sarge that though they’re not Infantry officers, (and that they make everybody in that kind of branch ‘officers’ to make them feel important,) he should still show them the respect due their rank. Or something like that. Apologies, didn’t read the post clearly enough. I was distinguishing between the psi guy working in the front line and somebody who only served back at base. As you say, the guy mapping the tunnels was an officer and therefore in Federal service but I don’t see why his service is any less hazardous and demanding than that of Carl as a researcher on Pluto or Carmen in her ship - or even Juan in the MI. A quick check in the book shows he was not only on the battlefield without armour but - to do his work - he repeatedly took off his breathing mask in an area knowing the atmosphere was dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-spoilers-how-does-the-starship-troopers-movie-diverge-from-the-book/465596/62 "2008-09-29T20:57:29Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > The only way this movie could be a successful satire is if it were not satirizing Heinlein at all. Exactly. And I never suggested it was satirizing Heinlein; I said it was satirizing American imperialism. It’s also satirizing the American political culture, and WWII movies, and pro-military propaganda in general. AFAIK, Verhoeven probably saw it as more of a Neumeier work than a Heinlein work; I doubt he gave Heinlein much thought at all. He worked from the screenplay Neumeier gave him. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-spoilers-how-does-the-starship-troopers-movie-diverge-from-the-book/465596/63 "2008-09-29T21:17:37Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > And I never suggested it was satirizing Heinlein; I said it was satirizing American imperialism. It’s also satirizing the American political culture, and WWII movies, and pro-military propaganda in general. Then it’s doing it really badly. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-spoilers-how-does-the-starship-troopers-movie-diverge-from-the-book/465596/64 "2008-09-30T00:18:52Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > Apologies, didn’t read the post clearly enough. I was distinguishing between the psi guy working in the front line and somebody who only served back at base. > > As you say, the guy mapping the tunnels was an officer and therefore in Federal service but I don’t see why his service is any less hazardous and demanding than that of Carl as a researcher on Pluto or Carmen in her ship - or even Juan in the MI. A quick check in the book shows he was not only on the battlefield without armour but - to do his work - he repeatedly took off his breathing mask in an area knowing the atmosphere was dangerous. All Federal service leading to citizenship was hazardous, whether it was military or not. It was designed that way. You could wind up field-testing survival gear on Titan, or a laborer in the Terranizing of Venus. To quote the recruiting officer - “A term of service isn’t a kiddie camp; it’s either real military service, rough and dangerous even in peacetime…or a most unreasonable facsimile thereof.” The one thing that floored me that hasn’t been mentioned yet is how Johnny got promoted from private to Lieutenant commanding the Roughnecks on a whim. No promoting the lead sergeant, no bringing in an experienced officer - lets just give the movie star the job. Completely skipped over Johnny attending OCS, and how only experienced soldiers with combat experience were ever promoted to officers, and the whole 3rd Lieutenant business. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-spoilers-how-does-the-starship-troopers-movie-diverge-from-the-book/465596/65 "2008-09-30T00:29:15Z")
Which in the book is the capstone of the whole Father/Son thing. The transition from ignorance to knowledge, from apathy to responsibility is beautifully played out. “Bridge! Rico’s Roughnecks…ready for drop.” ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-spoilers-how-does-the-starship-troopers-movie-diverge-from-the-book/465596/66 "2008-09-30T00:37:29Z")
Slight hijack: Don’t google Rodger Young. While his story is inspiring, his appearance is much too close to that of a certain company clerk from a certain Korean war based sitcom. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-spoilers-how-does-the-starship-troopers-movie-diverge-from-the-book/465596/67 "2008-09-30T00:39:18Z")
Another difference: In the book, Johnny Rico is Filipino. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-spoilers-how-does-the-starship-troopers-movie-diverge-from-the-book/465596/68 "2008-09-30T00:43:11Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Huh, I’d never heard that. Do you have a cite? I’d be interested to see it. I wish I had a better cite, but all I have is wikipedia, which says: “A report in an American Cinematographer article around the same time as the film’s release states the Heinlein novel was optioned well into the pre-production period of the film, which had a working title of Bug Hunt at Outpost Nine; most of the writing team reportedly were unaware of the novel at the time. According to the DVD commentary, Paul Verhoeven never finished reading the novel, claiming he read through the first few chapters and became both “bored and depressed.”” > **[Starship Troopers (film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers_(film))** > > Starship Troopers is a 1997 American science fiction action film directed by Paul Verhoeven and written by Edward Neumeier, based on the 1959 novel by Robert A. Heinlein. Set in the 23rd century, the story follows teenager Johnny Rico and his comrades as they serve in the military of the United Citizen Federation, an Earth-based world government engaged in an interstellar war against an alien species known as the Arachnids. The film stars Casper Van Dien, Dina Meyer, Denise Richards, Jake Bu... ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-spoilers-how-does-the-starship-troopers-movie-diverge-from-the-book/465596/69 "2008-09-30T01:03:50Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > I wish I had a better cite, but all I have is wikipedia, which says: > > “A report in an American Cinematographer article around the same time as the film’s release states the Heinlein novel was optioned well into the pre-production period of the film, which had a working title of Bug Hunt at Outpost Nine; most of the writing team reportedly were unaware of the novel at the time. According to the DVD commentary, Paul Verhoeven never finished reading the novel, claiming he read through the first few chapters and became both “bored and depressed.”” > [Starship Troopers (film) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers_(film)) Which I think effectively puts paid to **lissener** ’s thesis that it is a parody. An effective parody (Don Quixote and Gulliver’s Travels come quickly to mind as classic parodies) is founded in a deep knowledge of what is being parodied. Verhoeven and his screenwriter clearly did not have a clue of what they were doing except make a shoot-em-up-with-beefcake-and-boobs space flic. Just as everyone else’s been maintaining. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-spoilers-how-does-the-starship-troopers-movie-diverge-from-the-book/465596/70 "2008-09-30T01:54:43Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Verhoeven and his screenwriter clearly did not have a clue of what they were doing except make a shoot-em-up-with-beefcake-and-boobs space flic. Just as everyone else’s been maintaining. I wouldn’t go that far; the satirical element is there as well. It’s just, as others have pointed out, an extraordinarily bad and ill-defined satire. The characters are all presented as Nazis. Is this a satirical dig at Heinlein? Evidently not, as Verhoeven admits he doesn’t know Heinlein from Adam. Is it a dig at militarism? If so, it’s so crude and superficial as to be meaningless (also, I think history would view the Nazis much more favorably if they really had been defending us all from swarms of giant brain-eating tarantulas). Is the entire movie a spoof on the glorification of militarism by Hollywood and the media in general? If so, it fails because it’s effectively indistinguishable from the target it aims to satirize; plenty of other movie soldiers are just as dumb as Verhoeven’s. In a way, Verhoeven’s **Starship Troopers** reminds me of the modern slew of “[Genre] Movie” film satires by Friedberg and Seltzer. It operates on the same level of critical thought as a really lazy _Mad Magazine_ spoof. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-spoilers-how-does-the-starship-troopers-movie-diverge-from-the-book/465596/71 "2008-09-30T02:04:16Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > It operates on the same level of critical thought as a really lazy _Mad Magazine_ spoof. I demand that you apologize to Bill Gaines this instant! ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-spoilers-how-does-the-starship-troopers-movie-diverge-from-the-book/465596/72 "2008-09-30T02:35:52Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Except they’re all targets of the satire as well. In other words, Verhoeven probably agrees with you. But it’s not intended as a serious SF movie at all. As I’ve said before, when you identify the stupid in a Verhoeven movie, you’ve probably indentified Verhoeven’s point. Look **Lissener** we get it. You think that Verbhoeven is without a doubt the greatest film director to ever yell CUT! But you can’t blame all the stupidity in **Verhoeven’s** starship troopers on the screen writer. When a review of the movie (linked above) contains things like > [@](#): > > Our guys stand shoulder to shoulder, firing at the mass of bugs, using a set of tactics that hasn’t worked well since Gettysburg. Actually, the guys at Gettysburg were a bit better better equipped for what they were doing, since they had artillery (a concept that has been lost, apparently) and weapons with an accurate range of over eight feet. Other lost concepts that would have proved Really Helpful here include close air support, mortars, air-dropped mines, barbed wire, fire, maneuver, cover, concealment, objectives, and useful orders. (I mean, “Kill everything that has more than two legs” is really neat, but… > Nor, for that matter, do we have armored fighting vehicles, heavy machineguns, shoulder-launched missiles, or other stuff (a spray can of Raid?) that might have come in handy… > And I finally figured out why the MI’s weapons have a range and effectiveness that would make a 17th century Musket-and-Pike formation look good: We have to kill our bugs close enough so that their ichor will splash on the troopers. The ichor comes in two colors, vibrant red and deep green, which lends a rather festive touch to the affair… > Well, we get called to relieve an outpost. Our guys walk there in a gaggle, through a canyon, all bunched up, with no scouts out. It occurred to me that if you’d given me two grenades, a Thompson submachinegun, and a twenty-minute start, that I could have taken on the Mobile Infantry. So could you. The MI in this film are laughably bad. Somebody on the on the set gave the actors **Direction** as to where to walk, and how far apart to walk and stuff like that that. Now I am not an expert on movie making so maybe someone could tell me who’s job it is to **DIRECT** actors on the set. Is it the screenwriter’s job? 😕 That doesn’t sound right. Is it the best boy’s job? I have no idea what a best boy does, [del]but I’ll bet some of our[/del] I’ll guess no. Is it just maybe the **director’s** job? From what little I know about making movies, he is the guy that says you go here, walk to here and do this and deliver your line. The director is also the guy that tell the special effect department that I want the CGI bug to go here, not over there. So **Verhoeven’s** starship troopers doesn’t stand up even if you don’t compare it to Heinlein’s novel. ---
**Author:** ![A\_shameful\_cracka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@A\_shameful\_cracka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_shameful_cracka)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-spoilers-how-does-the-starship-troopers-movie-diverge-from-the-book/465596/73 "2008-09-30T03:06:37Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Brain Bugs - yes. Psi-Ops - no. I don’t remember the brain bugs in the book. I remember two castes of bugs they encountered - workers and warriors. They were indistinguishable, except that workers ran away from you and were totally non-aggressive, while the warriors would attack you with energy weapons. The bugs in the book were portrayed as a technological society capable of diplomacy - at the beginning of the book they are allied with the skinnies, but by the end of the book the skinnies are allied with the humans. I think they were capable of communication with other races, otherwise they couldn’t be friends with the skinnies. The bugs had bugs, trains, cities, etc. The crowds of MI and drop ships were a big departure. The MI in the book were described as very rarely being within direct visual range of the other soldiers - they would move in formations where each soldier was at least 1000 meters from the next guy, so they couldn’t all be taken out with one nuke. The MI were fired individually out of tubes on the ships and free fell most of the way into orbit in a shell that was designed to fall apart at lower altitude and fill the enemy radar with false images. I believe there were some chutes to slow descent, but the MI landed under their own powerful and were capable of flying thousands of yards. They were armed with energy weapons and tactical nuke launchers. Oddly, I really like the movie, but I don’t see it as having anything to do with the book, I just like the bugs and boobs and stupidity and violence. It’s a lot of fun, but a faithful adaptation of the book would be one of the most badass movies ever. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-spoilers-how-does-the-starship-troopers-movie-diverge-from-the-book/465596/74 "2008-09-30T03:28:14Z")
> [@A\_shameful\_cracka](#): > > I don’t remember the brain bugs in the book. I remember two castes of bugs they encountered - workers and warriors. They were indistinguishable, except that workers ran away from you and were totally non-aggressive, while the warriors would attack you with energy weapons. IIRC there was a brain bug in the book, in Johnny’s first drop as a Lieutenant, the brain bug was captured by one man working alone, his name was Zim.\* (my book is in storage, so I can’t check, did I get this right?) \*Sgt Zim was Johnny’s drill Sargent in basic training. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-spoilers-how-does-the-starship-troopers-movie-diverge-from-the-book/465596/75 "2008-09-30T03:44:18Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > IIRC there was a brain bug in the book, in Johnny’s first drop as a Lieutenant, the brain bug was captured by one man working alone, his name was Zim.\* (my book is in storage, so I can’t check, did I get this right?) > > \*Sgt Zim was Johnny’s drill Sargent in basic training. Yup, that’s it. The whole drop on Planet P was to capture royalty castes - brains and queens. Normally they’d have just had the fleet render it uninhabitable by Man or Bug. And in the book, Zim was also Johnny’s platoon Sergeant when he dropped as a 3rd Lieutenant - he was still in OCS. Because the platoon leader who was supposed to be his examining officer got sick, the battalion commander (Blackie’s Blackguards) decided to let Johnny lead the platoon, under his and Zim’s watchful eyes. We don’t get told that his platoon sergeant was Zim until the very end of the battle though. And afterwards, Zim gets a battlefield commission. That probably wouldn’t have worked in the movie, since it would have been difficult to hide the platoon sergeant’s identity. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-spoilers-how-does-the-starship-troopers-movie-diverge-from-the-book/465596/76 "2008-09-30T04:02:16Z")
I remembered the line **His name was Zim.** 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Walton\_Firm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/45deac/32.png) [@Walton\_Firm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walton_Firm)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-spoilers-how-does-the-starship-troopers-movie-diverge-from-the-book/465596/77 "2008-09-30T05:33:17Z")
On the question of whether Federal Service necessarily meant _military_ service: the case that this is so, is made very strongly in [this essay (PDF)](http://www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah/ftp/fedrlsvc.pdf) by James Gifford. In it, he analyzes every line in the book which provides evidence either way, and concludes that the only reasonable explanation is that all service is indeed military; some of it consists of ‘non-combatant auxiliary services’ but always dangerous and exposed to the enemy. If you were completely unfit for any kind of real military work, you would be given a dangerous make-work task like field-testing experimental space suits. There is no indication anywhere that civil service could include non-military jobs such as working in a geriatric hospital, or delivering mail, or being a government bureaucrat. To be fair, however, there is one strong argument for the other side: [QUOTE=James Gifford, author of the PDF I just linked to] There has been an extraordinary amount of argument over which answer is correct. There is evidence to support both views, although it is unequally distributed. The evidence for answer one is strong and plentiful. The evidence for answer two is sparse, weak and subjective, although points can be made in its favor. Given the imbalance, it would seem that the argument would have been settled long ago. This would be true were it not for a very strong comment by Robert Heinlein himself, insisting that the latter answer is correct. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-spoilers-how-does-the-starship-troopers-movie-diverge-from-the-book/465596/78 "2008-09-30T06:53:29Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Except they’re all targets of the satire as well. In other words, Verhoeven probably agrees with you. But it’s not intended as a serious SF movie at all. As I’ve said before, when you identify the stupid in a Verhoeven movie, you’ve probably indentified Verhoeven’s point. The world has enough stupid in it already. What we need is more smart. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-spoilers-how-does-the-starship-troopers-movie-diverge-from-the-book/465596/79 "2008-09-30T14:18:54Z")
> [@Walton\_Firm](#): > > On the question of whether Federal Service necessarily meant _military_ service: the case that this is so, is made very strongly in [this essay (PDF)](http://www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah/ftp/fedrlsvc.pdf) by James Gifford. > > In it, he analyzes every line in the book which provides evidence either way, and concludes that the only reasonable explanation is that all service is indeed military; some of it consists of ‘non-combatant auxiliary services’ but always dangerous and exposed to the enemy. If you were completely unfit for any kind of real military work, you would be given a dangerous make-work task like field-testing experimental space suits. There is no indication anywhere that civil service could include non-military jobs such as working in a geriatric hospital, or delivering mail, or being a government bureaucrat. Neat essay. He did leave out one line that I alluded to above - when Johnny is filling out his preferences form he says (paraphrasing, because I don’t have the book in front of me, but I read through this part last night) “I didn’t care if I wound up (doing something) or a laborer in the Terranizing of Venus. Either one was a booby prize.” It’s hard to justify laboring on the Terranizing of Venus as a military endeavor - it’s no doubt dangerous, brutal, exhausting labor, but has no immediate or long term military application. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-spoilers-how-does-the-starship-troopers-movie-diverge-from-the-book/465596/80 "2008-09-30T15:59:55Z")
Unless, of course, Terraforming Venus includes subduing the hostile underground lifeforms in ways that include lots of visually appealing explosions and nudity. True to form, Hollywood followed up the financial success of the first movie with a forgettable second movie (which also had a brief topless/nudity shot, which is all I remember about it). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-spoilers-how-does-the-starship-troopers-movie-diverge-from-the-book/465596.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-spoilers-how-does-the-starship-troopers-movie-diverge-from-the-book/465596.md?page=5)