# "Open up! Zis iss ze Gestapo!" is no longer funny. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 27, 2018, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-up-zis-iss-ze-gestapo-is-no-longer-funny/822042 "2018-09-27T17:47:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-up-zis-iss-ze-gestapo-is-no-longer-funny/822042/21 "2018-09-28T01:07:36Z")
_In re_ some of the other shows in the new lineup, I can’t believe how awful the early episodes of _ **Mission: Impossible** _ were. The best part of the pilot was when Rollin actually hit on Cinnamon before putting on his disguise (and she turned down his rather crude advances). It clearly took a while for this series to hit its stride. _ **Lost in Space** _ is more than dreadful. “Putrid” is not strong enough to describe it. The Robinsons drift from one catastrophic situation to another while they exchange bits of stilted dialogue and theramin music plays in the background. I also realized this afternoon that the character of Montgomery Burns must have been based on Dr Smith (“Excellent!”). Watching _ **Rhoda** _ is like seeing a kosher chick flick. \*\*\* I Love Lucy\*\*\* is, well, _ **I Love Lucy.** _ Even _ **Soap** _ is incredibly dated. I wish _ **Hogan’s Heroes** _, _ **Barney Miller** _, and _ **Cheers!** _ were scheduled back to back either early in the morning or late in the afternoon. That way I wouldn’t have to wait for hours watch them all. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-up-zis-iss-ze-gestapo-is-no-longer-funny/822042/22 "2018-09-28T01:20:02Z")
One of the [best recent comedies](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0200276/), one of the best comedies of all time, had no laugh track. The effort that was made to reach the comic moments made them so much more rewarding, though the humor waned after the fourth season when Sorkin resigned. But I loves me some Alison Janney. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-up-zis-iss-ze-gestapo-is-no-longer-funny/822042/23 "2018-09-28T09:40:30Z")
Even though it was wildly parodied for it, I thought Married with Children had the best laugh track since the actual in-studio audience brought their own fun energy to the show. Having Jefferson show-up at the door and hearing a full 10 seconds of audience applause never ceases to make me smile. ---
**Author:** ![LLCoolL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/llcooll/32/3596_2.png) [@LLCoolL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LLCoolL)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-up-zis-iss-ze-gestapo-is-no-longer-funny/822042/24 "2018-09-28T12:03:28Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > … I did talk to a bunch of writers on other sitcoms in an entertainment production survey course at USC, and sitcoms are basically the writer’s ghetto of jobs; the format is set and there is very little room for any creativity other than creating novel gag humor and filling up the ‘trick bag’ with jokes. … > Stranger I would have guessed that most TV writers break down into either comedy writers or drama. If you’re comedy, then there doesn’t seem to be a lot of options besides sitcoms. (Except maybe writing jokes and sketches for late night talk shows or the likes of SNL.) If so, then how can sitcoms be a “ghetto” if they’re the only game in town? Serious question, I’m confused… ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-up-zis-iss-ze-gestapo-is-no-longer-funny/822042/25 "2018-09-28T12:34:54Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > He was a very dedicated videographer; he spent a LOT of his own money to obtain state of the art equipment for use in his own productions. His passion for this activity eventually negatively affected his health and led to his premature death. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-up-zis-iss-ze-gestapo-is-no-longer-funny/822042/26 "2018-09-28T13:54:05Z")
> [@LLCoolL](#): > > I would have guessed that most TV writers break down into either comedy writers or drama. If you’re comedy, then there doesn’t seem to be a lot of options besides sitcoms. (Except maybe writing jokes and sketches for late night talk shows or the likes of SNL.) If so, then how can sitcoms be a “ghetto” if they’re the only game in town? Serious question, I’m confused… It’s not true that “…TV writers break down into either comedy writers or drama”; any writer worth their salt should be capable of either, e.g. the Coen brothers. The skill of constructing a narrative and developing characters is the same, as is pacing the comedic or dramatic beats of the story, although comedy trends to move at a faster pace and embrace more absurdity. A show like _Arrested Development_, despite being a comedy and ostensibly a sitcom, is actually constructed more like a murder mystery with complex interlocking narrative threads and clues, with punchlines that pay off a gag that has been running throughout an episode or even across multiple episodes. The problem with sitcoms is that they have a set formula and the characters are generally immutable, and therefore there is little opportunity for originality. It’s the narrative version of a musician writing advertising jingles. Good writers who want to work in comedy television look for shows like _The Simpsons_, _Community_, or _Parks & Rec_ where the characters are allowed to change and stories progressively build, which is an anathema to traditional sitcoms which don’t want the shows that have to be followed and watched in a specific order. This makes it engaging to write versus a story where nothing changes, the plot resolution doesn’t force anyone to re-evaluate their actions or values, and the humor comes from pulling jokes and gag randomly out of a trick bag. Sketch comedy is its own thing as it generally doesn’t have much narrative structure and is heavily gag-oriented, so sketch comedy writers don’t generally cross with narrative television of film writers (although there are exceptions like Tina Fey), and it’s why attampts to take sketch characters and build a feature film around them generally don’t work, e.g. _Coneheads_ or _It’s Pat_ even though they are successful in their native medium; the rare exception like _The Blues Brothers_ used narrative writers and constructed an actual story instead of just having the characters run through a series of gags. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-up-zis-iss-ze-gestapo-is-no-longer-funny/822042/27 "2018-09-28T15:56:32Z")
Hard to believe the Gestapo are no longer a laff riot. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-up-zis-iss-ze-gestapo-is-no-longer-funny/822042/28 "2018-09-28T17:45:23Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Hard to believe the Gestapo are no longer a laff riot. ☹ The line “Open up…!” never failed to get a chuckle or two. It wasn’t like _ **The Sound of Music** _, where none of the Nazis were lovable. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-up-zis-iss-ze-gestapo-is-no-longer-funny/822042/29 "2018-09-28T17:50:06Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > The skill of constructing a narrative and developing characters is the same, as is pacing the comedic or dramatic beats of the story, although comedy trends to move at a faster pace and embrace more absurdity. Here’s an interesting article in the same vein, about both _ **HH** _ and sitcoms in general: > **[Hogan’s Heroes’ unceremonious finale comes from the era before TV “endgames”](https://www.avclub.com/hogan-s-heroes-unceremonious-finale-comes-from-the-era-1798237542)** > > For six years—longer than the American involvement in World War II—the prisoners of Hogan’s Heroes’ Luftwaffe Stalag 13 fought the Nazis from deep inside enemy territory. They sabotaged major operations, fed intelligence to Allied command, offered... ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-up-zis-iss-ze-gestapo-is-no-longer-funny/822042/30 "2018-09-28T17:52:20Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > I wish _ **Hogan’s Heroes** _, _ **Barney Miller** _, and _ **Cheers!** _ were scheduled back to back either early in the morning or late in the afternoon. That way I wouldn’t have to wait for hours watch them all. Add \*\*\*Taxi \*\*\*to the list too. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-up-zis-iss-ze-gestapo-is-no-longer-funny/822042/31 "2018-09-28T22:11:16Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > I was, however, puzzled as to why I wasn’t laughing as hard at _ **Hogan’s Heroes** _ as I used to. Finally I realized I must be watching a remastered version with **no laugh track**. Was it ever funny? There are plenty of people this side of the Atlantic still alive who remember hearing that for real. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-up-zis-iss-ze-gestapo-is-no-longer-funny/822042/32 "2018-09-28T22:13:55Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > Scooby-Doo having a laugh track was the most bizarre one I like the idea of a cartoon audience. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-up-zis-iss-ze-gestapo-is-no-longer-funny/822042/33 "2018-09-28T22:16:39Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > He was a very dedicated videographer; he spent a LOT of his own money to obtain state of the art equipment for use in his own productions. His passion for this activity eventually negatively affected his health and led to his premature death. Premature? I imagine quite a few people thought it was overdue, and there’s certainly one person out there who thought the time was just right. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-up-zis-iss-ze-gestapo-is-no-longer-funny/822042/34 "2018-09-28T23:49:17Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Was it ever funny? There are plenty of people this side of the Atlantic still alive who remember hearing that for real. One, two, three… **SARCASM!** ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-up-zis-iss-ze-gestapo-is-no-longer-funny/822042/35 "2018-09-29T00:16:29Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Premature? I imagine quite a few people thought it was overdue, and there’s certainly one person out there who thought the time was just right. What I told you was true, from a certain point of view. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![LLCoolL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/llcooll/32/3596_2.png) [@LLCoolL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LLCoolL)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-up-zis-iss-ze-gestapo-is-no-longer-funny/822042/36 "2018-09-30T00:34:16Z")
Stranger, thank you for your detailed explanation. I’m a tech industry work far removed from all of this, but I’m always interested in learning more about how the biz works. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > It’s not true that “…TV writers break down into either comedy writers or drama”; any writer worth their salt should be capable of either, e.g. the Coen brothers… Well, if the Coen brothers are the standard for ‘any writer worth his salt’, then a lot of Hollywood writers must be feeling pretty depressed right about now. 😉 > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > …The skill of constructing a narrative and developing characters is the same, as is pacing the comedic or dramatic beats of the story, although comedy trends to move at a faster pace and embrace more absurdity. A show like _Arrested Development_, despite being a comedy and ostensibly a sitcom, is actually constructed more like a murder mystery with complex interlocking narrative threads and clues, with punchlines that pay off a gag that has been running throughout an episode or even across multiple episodes. Fascinating. I’d never considered that about something like _Arrested Development_. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > … traditional sitcoms …don’t want shows that have to be followed and watched in a specific order. … a story where nothing changes, the plot resolution doesn’t force anyone to re-evaluate their actions or values, and the humor comes from pulling jokes and gag randomly out of a trick bag. That sounds an awful lot like _Seinfeld_, which famously had the rule “no learning” for the characters. I don’t think I view \*Seinfeld \*as a formula sitcom, although it was much closer to that than something like _Arrested Development_ or _Community_. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-up-zis-iss-ze-gestapo-is-no-longer-funny/822042/37 "2018-09-30T00:59:43Z")
> [@LLCoolL](#): > > That sounds an awful lot like _Seinfeld_, which famously had the rule “no learning” for the characters. I don’t think I view \*Seinfeld \*as a formula sitcom, although it was much closer to that than something like _Arrested Development_ or _Community_. Not only did _ **Seinfeld** _ have numerous story arcs, the characters were constantly referring to things that had happened weeks, months, or even years before. You missed a lot of the jokes you weren’t familiar with the series backlog. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-up-zis-iss-ze-gestapo-is-no-longer-funny/822042/38 "2018-09-30T01:02:45Z")
> [@LLCoolL](#): > > Stranger, thank you for your detailed explanation. I’m a tech industry work far removed from all of this, but I’m always interested in learning more about how the biz works. Just to be clear, I don’t work in the industry, so what I know of the inner workings is secondhand, although it is directly from production assistants, writers, et cetera who do work in the industry. > [@LLCoolL](#): > > That sounds an awful lot like _Seinfeld_, which famously had the rule “no learning” for the characters. I don’t think I view \*Seinfeld \*as a formula sitcom, although it was much closer to that than something like _Arrested Development_ or _Community_. _Seinfeld_ was more of a metatextual commentary on the inanities of customs and social norms. It had the trappings of a sitcom—the wacky neighbor, the girlfriend, the ne’er-do-well best friend—but the characters were almost incidential. (There is no way Jerry Seinfeld could actually carry a show or film if he had to do so on the basis of character; he’s about as interesting as paste and frankly a mediocre comedian, and they were fortunate to have Julia Louis-Dreyfess and Jason Alexander who can hit their beats reliably.) I’m personally not a big fan of Seinfeld and consider it a pale reflection of _Curb Your Enthusiasm_, but the best show in that subgenre is still _It’s Garry Shandling’s Show_. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-up-zis-iss-ze-gestapo-is-no-longer-funny/822042/39 "2018-09-30T20:50:51Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Not only did _ **Seinfeld** _ have numerous story arcs, the characters were constantly referring to things that had happened weeks, months, or even years before. You missed a lot of the jokes you weren’t familiar with the series backlog. E.g., in one episode Jerry said he was thinking of taking up the yoyo. In the next episode he is frustrated by be unable to get a yoyo to sleep. _Very_ subtle. NBC, in its infinite wisdom, originally aired the episodes out of order. (In syndication you can get such wonderfulness as _The Contest_ airing a couple nights before _The Virgin_.) ---
**Author:** ![Sloe\_Moe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sloe\_Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sloe_Moe)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2018, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-up-zis-iss-ze-gestapo-is-no-longer-funny/822042/40 "2018-10-01T09:00:58Z")
I don’t know. The part concerning the Gestapo, Mein Kampf, and indoctrination in “Stalag 17” was the funniest part of the movie. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-up-zis-iss-ze-gestapo-is-no-longer-funny/822042.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-up-zis-iss-ze-gestapo-is-no-longer-funny/822042.md?page=3)