# Open your door, smack a biker? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 26, 2004, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-your-door-smack-a-biker/266196 "2004-09-26T20:32:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-your-door-smack-a-biker/266196/1 "2004-09-26T20:32:34Z")
This is my last sincere question today, I promise. It’s a beautiful day, so I went for a drive. So did a buncha bikers. I know this to be a fable near and dear to the hearts of many motorcyclists, but I suspect urban legend. I’ve been driving for many years and I’ve personally seen it happen. I don’t know even one rider who’s had it happen to them. Always it’s a friend of a cousin, etc. Has anyone ever had a driver in a car open their door in traffic is an attempt to crash your motorcycle? Has anyone ever personally witnessed such an act? Not the idiot at a curb who’s not paying attention, that does happen, but an intentional attempt at murder. Easy bonus question; If Harley riders see a guy riding a Harley wearing a conventional helmet instead of one of those little brain buckets, will they yank him off the bike and beat him up? Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Anachronism](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@Anachronism](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anachronism)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-your-door-smack-a-biker/266196/2 "2004-09-26T21:46:38Z")
For those dopers not from California, in California it is legal for motorcyles to ride between lanes. AFAIK California is the only state where this is legal. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-your-door-smack-a-biker/266196/3 "2004-09-26T21:56:10Z")
**mg:** _Has anyone ever had a driver in a car open their door in traffic [in] an attempt to crash your motorcycle?_ Gracious, what kind of moron opens their car door in traffic for any reason, even if they’re not deliberately attempting to commit vehicular homicide? I was always taught that that’s a really dangerous thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-your-door-smack-a-biker/266196/4 "2004-09-26T22:27:17Z")
Cyclists get doored all the time in cities like DC, Boston, NYC, but it’s a bit different. Usually the situation is a cyclist is passing a stopped car and the driver goes to exit the car without checking behind them. In this case, it is usually inattention, not malice, that causes the problem. I was doored in DC this way. Is that what you are referring to? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-your-door-smack-a-biker/266196/5 "2004-09-26T22:33:10Z")
> [@paperbackwriter](#): > > Cyclists get doored all the time in cities like DC, Boston, NYC, but it’s a bit different. Usually the situation is a cyclist is passing a stopped car and the driver goes to exit the car without checking behind them. In this case, it is usually inattention, not malice, that causes the problem. I was doored in DC this way. > > Is that what you are referring to? Evidentally not: > [@mangeorge](#): > > Not the idiot at a curb who’s not paying attention, that does happen, but an intentional attempt at murder. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-your-door-smack-a-biker/266196/6 "2004-09-26T22:41:00Z")
> [@paperbackwriter](#): > > Cyclists get doored all the time in cities like DC, Boston, NYC, but it’s a bit different. Usually the situation is a cyclist is passing a stopped car and the driver goes to exit the car without checking behind them. In this case, it is usually inattention, not malice, that causes the problem. I was doored in DC this way. > > Is that what you are referring to? The OP is talking about motorcycles, not bicycles. But I know exactly what you’re talking about. When out riding in that type of situation, we usually yell out “DOOR PRIZE” if it looks like some idiot is about open his car door w/o looking. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![W.Fikere\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@W.Fikere\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/W.Fikere_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-your-door-smack-a-biker/266196/7 "2004-09-26T23:34:55Z")
Unless the driver gave you the finger before doing it, how would you know if it were malicious? ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-your-door-smack-a-biker/266196/8 "2004-09-27T00:10:02Z")
> [@W. Fikere Tomba](#): > > Unless the driver gave you the finger before doing it, how would you know if it were malicious? What I’ve been told about allegdedly happens on the freeway, when traffic is stop and go. There are a _lot_ of motorcyclists in CA, and most do split lanes, even bitching if cars don’t “make room”. I don’t blame them, as long as they get away with it. Not that we owe it to them. Some drivers, already annoyed by the traffic, take umbrage at this practice. I’ve been in the car with drivers who get pretty pissed off when a motorctcle squeezes past. The story goes that when riding, you gotta watch their mirrors to see if the motorists are looking at you. If they are, chamces are they’re plotting to door you. On purpose. I _can’t_ be the only one whose heard this complaint. BTW; I would prefer that lane splitting be illegal because it is dangerous for both vehucles. It’s distracting as hell when, at 30 or 40 mph a nearly silent MC goes whizzing by. Did I say that they sometimes do it at freeway speeds? Stupid, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-your-door-smack-a-biker/266196/9 "2004-09-27T00:15:21Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > Easy bonus question; > If Harley riders see a guy riding a Harley wearing a conventional helmet instead of one of those little brain buckets, will they yank him off the bike and beat him up? > Peace, > mangeorge I could not conceive of the kind of motorcycle rider who would do this, up to and including Outlaw Gang Members. From my experience, even those who steal bikes take them while unattended, and not for any helmet style reasons ---
**Author:** ![W.Fikere\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@W.Fikere\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/W.Fikere_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-your-door-smack-a-biker/266196/10 "2004-09-27T00:27:26Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > What I’ve been told about allegdedly happens on the freeway, when traffic is stop and go. Ah, now I see. > [@mangeorge](#): > > The story goes that when riding, you gotta watch their mirrors to see if the motorists are looking at you. If they are, chamces are they’re plotting to door you. On purpose. This sounds like a dangerous belief. In general, you would want the motorists to be looking at you, so you know they see you. And most drivers, if they know you’re there, would be paying close attention to you, since you are a potential hazard. Waiting till they’re not looking and _then_ slipping by is asking for trouble, I’d say. (But then, I’d say the same thing about riding a motorcycle on the highway!) ---
**Author:** ![W.Fikere\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@W.Fikere\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/W.Fikere_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-your-door-smack-a-biker/266196/11 "2004-09-27T00:28:49Z")
Just to clarify: by “asking for trouble” I did not mean that any behavior justifies a malicious attack. I meant it in the sense of inviting an accident. ---
**Author:** ![Cooper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@Cooper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cooper)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-your-door-smack-a-biker/266196/12 "2004-09-27T00:40:18Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > What I’ve been told about allegdedly happens on the freeway, when traffic is stop and go. There are a _lot_ of motorcyclists in CA, and most do split lanes, even bitching if cars don’t “make room”. I don’t blame them, as long as they get away with it. Not that we owe it to them. Some drivers, already annoyed by the traffic, take umbrage at this practice. I’ve been in the car with drivers who get pretty pissed off when a motorctcle squeezes past. > The story goes that when riding, you gotta watch their mirrors to see if the motorists are looking at you. If they are, chamces are they’re plotting to door you. On purpose. This is a ludicrous idea. How would the driver possibly get away with it? “Well, officer, I was sitting on the freeway, and I just - ya know - opened my door.” Obviously accidents happen when people park on the street, but there is no legitimate reason to open your door when you are stopped on the freeway, and there is also no way to claim you couldn’t hear the Harley behind you. Even if you weren’t prosecuted for a criminal offense you’d be 100% at fault from a civil standpoint (in California, where it is legal for the motorcycle rider to do this). ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-your-door-smack-a-biker/266196/13 "2004-09-27T00:55:04Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ve been in the car with drivers who get pretty pissed off when a motorctcle squeezes past. No need for drivers to get pissed off. The motorcyle will be past them in under a second. Getting pissed off serves no purpose. > [@](#): > > BTW; I would prefer that lane splitting be illegal because it is dangerous for both vehucles. In an issue of _CA Biker_ I read in 1993 or 1994, an article stated that the CHP had conducted a study about the safety of lane-splitting and found that it was “not particularly dangerous”. I have over 100,000 miles on motorcycles in L.A. traffic. Yes, I’ve been hit. (The pickup driver made a “two-lane dash” in heavy traffic.) Yes, I’ve had close calls. But in general there is plenty of room. More, most motorcyclists really do know what they’re doing. I would say that it’s _safer_ for motorcyclists to split lanes. People are often rear-ended in stop-and-go traffic. This is unpleasant in a car. On a motorcycle it can be life-threatening. By lane-splitting, the motorcyclist virtually guarantees that he will not be hit from behind. Even when traffic is moving, you still may be hit from behind. I know. Had I not made a quick evasive maneuver between lanes of traffic that was moving about 50 mph, I would have been hit once by an erratic driver. Many motorcycles can suffer from overheating. I think there is one Honda in particular that was prone to overheating at low speeds. If a motorcycle overheats, then it creates a traffic obstruction or “gawker’s block”. And yes, there are still bikes out there that are air cooled. Better to keep it moving. Not only that, but heat is very fatiguing. Motorcycles don’t have air conditioning. On a hot Southern California day the rider really needs the breeze. For the most part it’s a comfort issue; but an uncomfortable or fatigued rider has the potential of making poor or overly-aggressive decisions (just like a cage driver). Even at freeway speeds, I can tell you that the seat on my R-1 can get a bit toasty. So lane-splitting is safer for the motorcyclist, and can reduce the possibility of overheating that will cause a traffic jam. > [@](#): > > It’s distracting as hell when, at 30 or 40 mph a nearly silent MC goes whizzing by… > > Did I say that they sometimes do it at freeway speeds? Stupid, IMO. According to the CHP FAQ page, speeds must be “reasonable and prudent”. That means that scooting through stopped traffic at 40 mph is a citeable offence. It _traffic_ is moving at freeway speeds, there is normally space for motorcyclists to change lanes to get around people. Of course, they might be pulled over for speeding. To answer the OP, I think most motorcyclists and bikers have heard about “dooring”. I’ve never heard of it actually being done, though. Then there’s the myth that cage drivers will come up behind the motorcyclist and “rub” the rear wheel with a bumper (supposedly sending the rider over the handlebars). But a motorcyclist is extremely unlikely to let anyone get that close, and drivers (even evil ones) probably don’t have the skill to pull it off. All they’d do is rear-end the bike. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-your-door-smack-a-biker/266196/14 "2004-09-27T01:07:57Z")
Not being from California the idea of “lane sharing” seems completely ludicrous to me, especially when I see it being done here in a state where’s it’s illegal. It just looks dangerous as hell. On the other hand, you all kicked out Grey Davis, so you must _surely_ know what you’re doing. :dubious: So, tell me about this “lane sharing” in California. Is it legal in all circumstances? If we’re moving along at 75mph, is it _still_ legal to squeeze between two vehicles in adjacent lanes? Who has right of way? If I’m in “my” lane, I imagine that _I_ have the rights to my entire lane. What happens when a motor cycle squeezes beside me? What happens if he stays there? Does lane sharing give the motor cyclist permission to use the shoulder full time? ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-your-door-smack-a-biker/266196/15 "2004-09-27T01:18:09Z")
> [@UncleBill](#): > > I could not conceive of the kind of motorcycle rider who would do this, up to and including Outlaw Gang Members. From my experience, even those who steal bikes take them while unattended, and not for any helmet style reasons Yeah. Should’ve put a winky there. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-your-door-smack-a-biker/266196/16 "2004-09-27T01:31:17Z")
I can’t give much creedence to this being more than a legend for two reasons. One is the reason given by **Cooper**. The other is that while the motorcyclist is going to come off worst, that doesn’t mean the motorists car is going to be undamaged. It’s going to get pretty badly smacked up. Who’s going to do that to their own car? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-your-door-smack-a-biker/266196/17 "2004-09-27T01:34:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Not being from California the idea of “lane sharing” seems completely ludicrous to me… It just looks dangerous as hell. I assure you it’s not as dangerous as it seems. Cage drivers don’t realise how much room there actually is between them and the person next to them. Motorcyclists learn what to look for, and, as I said, we really do know what we’re doing. And it’s not ludicrous. When I was living in L.A. Ifound that it reduced my commuting time (down to Orange County) by a third. That’s a lot of savings over the course of a year! > [@](#): > > So, tell me about this “lane sharing” in California. Is it legal in all circumstances? [According to the CHP](http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/answers.html)" > [@](#): > > Lane splitting by motorcycles is permissible but must be done in a safe and prudent manner. So it’s _not_ legal if it’s done unsafely or imprudently. > [@](#): > > If we’re moving along at 75mph, is it still legal to squeeze between two vehicles in adjacent lanes? 75 mph is speeding. In any case, if traffic were moving at that speed there would be no need for a motorcyclist to split lanes because the traffic would be spread out enought for normal maneuvering. > [@](#): > > Who has right of way? If I’m in “my” lane, I imagine that I have the rights to my entire lane. I don’t know for a fact, but I believe the general rule is that a vehicle being overtaken has the right of way. Since the CHP says that lane-splitting is permitted, a motorcycle in this situation is entitled to use part of “your” lane. > [@](#): > > What happens when a motor cycle squeezes beside me? They rarely “squeeze”. There’s usually lots of room. What happens is that the motorcycle just overtakes you and the car next to you. If you’ve moved over to give him more room (not that he needs it, else he shouldn’t be trying to get by anyway), he’s likely to give a “thank you” wave for being considerate. > [@](#): > > What happens if he stays there? He shouldn’t. The only way he’d stay there is if the traffic is stopped and there is not enough room for him to proceed (so he’s stopped as well). He won’t just ride there next to you. I mean, the whole _point_ of lane-splitting (aside from the safety advantages I mentioned earlier) is to move faster than the cars. > [@](#): > > Does lane sharing give the motor cyclist permission to use the shoulder full time? Riding on either shoulder is not permitted. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-your-door-smack-a-biker/266196/18 "2004-09-27T01:36:03Z")
> [@Cooper](#): > > This is a ludicrous idea. How would the driver possibly get away with it? > > “Well, officer, I was sitting on the freeway, and I just - ya know - opened my door.” > > Obviously accidents happen when people park on the street, but there is no legitimate reason to open your door when you are stopped on the freeway, and there is also no way to claim you couldn’t hear the Harley behind you. Even if you weren’t prosecuted for a criminal offense you’d be 100% at fault from a civil standpoint (in California, where it is legal for the motorcycle rider to do this). Cool. You _agree_ with me. I’m saying it rarely, if ever, happens. I’ve had bikers of all stripes tell me that it does happen. Even those guys with the funny little helmets. What’s up with those things, anyway? They’re almost exclusively used by Harley riders, it seems to me. I googled. [these](http://www.tombstonecycles.com/helmets.htm) are what I’m talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-your-door-smack-a-biker/266196/19 "2004-09-27T01:39:47Z")
> [@](#): > > What’s up with those things, anyway? They’re almost exclusively used by Harley riders, it seems to me. Something I read in _The Hook_ (publication of the Tailhook Association): “It’s better to die than to look bad.” Apparently Harley drivers live by that creed. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-your-door-smack-a-biker/266196/20 "2004-09-27T01:51:28Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > . . .funny little helmets. What’s up with those things, anyway? They’re almost exclusively used by Harley riders, it seems to me. You see those in states with helmet laws (the same guys take them off when crossing state lines into no-helmet states). The site you linked shows DOT helmets, which means they pass minimal requirements for helmet laws. Not loopholes, exactly, but really minimal. So they’re kind of like the bikers thumbing their noses at the state. Serious sport riders use [Snell](http://www.smf.org/stds.html) helmets. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/open-your-door-smack-a-biker/266196.md?page=2)